Fuel Issues and Varnish

[Loki9]

I'd first try cleaning the tank in place.

If that doesn't work, consider pulling the engine into the cabin. It's not that difficult and can be done by one person with the boat in the water. It maybe the only way to get the tank out (pretty easy after the A4 is moved) and it will give you the opportunity to clean an examine places that you otherwise couldn't. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I'll give you the steps I took to do it.

[timkb]

O-Ring

If you PM me your address - I think I have a few extra o-rings. I'll send you at least one.

[gs11gk]

Thanks timkb. PM delivered and much appreciated.

[Bold Rascal]

P33 removal

Removal of the 20gal tank from the P33 was accomplished with the engine inplace and did require a couple hours effort. I am not at all sure what your arrangement is however, I also had to unscrew the holding straps on the starboard side of the cradle and slide the tank out the starboard cockpit locker. Having an extra pair of hands was helpful while lifting it out.

I was not able to completely remove the tank without first removing the pickup tube, Aaargh.... Loosen tank, Tilt, remove pickup, remove tank.

Best to drain/pump out and collect as much fuel from the tank as you can before removing it.

A gallon of acetone, thoroughly sloshed and rinsed, a thorough sloshing of 3 gallons white vinegar followed by a high pressure rinse worked really well for me. I left mine to air dry upside down for a few days before re-installing it.

Here's a picture of my pickup tube. Nice huh?

I eventually (after pulling the tank a second time) found a pin hole airleak in the tube just above the place where the black stuff ends. Of course this was after I thought I had everything else in the fuel system corrected. It's either brass or bronze under all that ???

The tank was half full of gas for about 6 years or so according to the PO.

Take your time, do it once, do it right. The best part of the sailing season is still to come.

Be careful about those gas fumes and Good Luck!
Mike

[sastanley]

fun with fuel!

+1 on the squeezy bulb for emptying the tank. It is not the quickest, but there are zero electrics involved.

When my aluminum tank developed a leak in the corner (of course full when stored for winter & one week before spring launch) I had my faithful companion squeezing the bulb to get the remaining fuel into a couple of jerry cans while I was sitting on the galley floor, drawers removed to gain access, and literally had my 'finger in the dike'. Oh, and it was pouring down rain & after dark...

This was even before we'd ever sailed the boat. I am sure she thought, 'what have I gotten myself into with this one?'

[Loki9]

I eventually (after pulling the tank a second time) found a pin hole airleak in the tube just above the place where the black stuff ends. Of course this was after I thought I had everything else in the fuel system corrected. It's either brass or bronze under all that ???

I'm pretty sure it's copper. The one in my P30 was copper, just like the rest of the fuel line from tank to filter.

[Bold Rascal]

I just checked...

Since I happen to have the remnant's of my old pick-up tube right here I gave it a good scrutinizing and discoverred it has some words stamped into the side of it which read:
"Revere Red Brass" According to one web site:

Art bronze casting in the past, and currently in many Italian foundries, used Red Brass, a copper alloy having the nominal chemistry of 85 % copper, 5% tin, 5% lead and 5% zinc. Red Brass has a universally recognized Copper Development Association (CDA) number of CDA836. Contemporary art foundries normally use either Everdur Silicon Bronze or Herculoy Silicon Bronze. Everdur is usually called 95-4-1 (CDA873), symbolizing its nominal chemistry of 95% copper, 4% silicon and 1% manganese. Herculoy is usually called 92-3-3 (CDA876), symbolizing its nominal chemistry of 92% copper, 4% silicon and 4% zinc. The selection is simply a foundry choice.

In the wrought form, silicon bronze has a CDA number of CDA655 and its nominal chemistry is 97% copper and 3% silicon. In plate form, it is called Herculoy (an original trademarked name by Revere Copper and Brass). It is sometimes confusing to artists in that the Herculoy plate is actually closer in chemistry to Everdur ingot than to Herculoy ingot.

Whew....Your right Jeff, It's a copper alloy.

[Loki9]

Phew!!

[Antibes]

I just removed my tank and decided to use carb cleaner since it does such a nice job at removing varnish from the carb. Then rinsing with gasoline multiple times, manually agitating the tank. When replacing the fill hose try to avoid having a low spot where debris can accumulate between fillings

[gs11gk]

Update

Felt I should give an update on progress so far. I decided to do my best to clean the tank and gas in situ. I opted for a drill pump to increase the amount of suction and speed the process. That worked so much better than a hand bulb and allowed me to do the entire process outside the boat- well ventilated. With about 3-4 gallons of gas I pumped it out and strained it probably 25 times. I started with the West Marine funnel that separates water and filters simultaneously. By the end I was using a coffee filter. For anyone doing this, you definitely want to rock the boat as hard as you can to get it sloshing in the tank. I learned this lesson about 10 pumps into the process and I got much more of the big 'stuff.' I may do it again after the next vigorous sail.

In the end, I collected about 225cc of mostly black and a little brown. Pieces ranged from 5mm to dust- and everything in between. I'm pretty sure that it was the fuel inlet hose which was disintegrated and leaking. Using the dipstick, it sure feels like I got the majority of it. No mush at the bottom of the tank. I know its not as clean as having taken it out... but it sure was easier. The filter should get anything that's left (knock on wood).

So, we have a new filter and I just did the carb rebuild using the Moyer kit. Reassembly should happen on Saturday, along with an oil change and cooling system flush. Then I'll spend a few hours motoring to see how she runs.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[prstack7]

good for you

Glad you had some success. I used a drill pump as well. As for removing the tank, I don't believe it's possible to get it through either the starboard locker or the port quarter berth. I tried, but after measuring and remeasuring I concluded that the only way is through the galley with A4 removed. To remove the pick up tube, I just disconnected everything and rotated toward port quarter berth.

[gs11gk]

Another Update

The motor fired back up today. Ultimately, it was a loose connection inside the distributor. After four solid days rooting in and around the boat, I didn't have the stomach to go after the feeder tube in the tank. I'm calling it good for now- gas tank relatively clean, oil changed, distributor works, new fuel pump with the oil pressure switch added. I'll be taking her on a short cruise this weekend to see confirm that all is good.

[roadnsky]

David-
Congratulations! You've learned a lot from this.
May I make a couple suggestions (and please don't take it wrong)?

Make a WORK LIST of projects to be done on both the A4 and the boat.
(I make mine in order of priority)
That way, you'll have a running order of things you want to accomplish and a reminder.
Do be advised... with our older vessels, the list will NEVER be completed!

Second, keep a MAINTENANCE LOG of any work or improvements you've done.
I list mine by date and engine hours for reference.
It's especially handy when you're trying to remember when you last replaced something or WHERE you got something from.

Just some ideas you may already be using.
Again, not meant to be demeaning.

[Bold Rascal]

Nice log Jerry

Can I request a user friendly (non-PDF) format copy of it for my Pearson?
Thanks...

An idea for you GS.
I'm really glad you got your running issues resolved. And your pasenger's now hail you as not only a great captain but a great mechanic as well.

Regarding the pick-up tube. Hopefully you don't have a leak in it BUT. Can I suggest that if you do start to experience the rough running or stalling out due to fuel starvation check your tanks fuel level and note it. The pin hole leak in my pick-up tube was somewhere above 10 gallons. Ran fine until the fuel level got down to the level of that pin hole.

Again, Good for you.

[roadnsky]

Can I request a user friendly (non-PDF) format copy of it for my Pearson?
Thanks...

Mike-
The log I use is in Word.
I just cut-n-paste from the previous section to make another entry.
Unfortunately, I can't upload a Word Doc here on the site.
PM me your email address and I can send the basic template if you'd like.