1958 Atomic4 Overhaul .5

[sastanley]

2dogs..i feel your pain on this project. Everything you touch just falls apart.

Let's hope that the bolts in the water jacket are breaking off right at the head...once they are all out/broken & the plate comes off, you might be able to get a vice-grips or something on them to get them out of the block. What type of pentrating oil are you using? The junk at Home Depot may not be good enough..Some folks on this site have decided a 50/50 mix of acetone & ATF might be the best. Once the plate is off, you maybe able to get some of this to work its way into the threads of the broken bolts & come loose without having to drill them out.

[2dogsnight]

I will get trough this
...most likelly nothing is going to help to free the bolts.....so far they are braking with about 1/4 to 3/8 of thread...I will try mix of ATF/acetone.
In worst case, I will brake them all off....mount the block on big drill press or Bridgeport manual mill, and drill and mill holes...maybe tap the rest of rusted in thread with hand tap......use Moyers set screw kit to fix it for good

BTW...thread size for my broken carburator screw is 4-40 !

[sastanley]

My local ACE Hardware gets hardware from Hillman, and they have #4-40 and everything in between too..

My local non-chain hardware store has an excellent selection of hardware too. That is where I got my stainless bolts and made them into studs.

If you don't have access to one yourself, I'll be happy to pick up whatever you need along the way.

[2dogsnight]

thank you for the offer Shawn!!!
.......so very nice of you !!

[marthur]

The mill totally rocks. Another thing you might try is welding a nut on the stuck fastener. The nut makes for good purchase with a socket and the concentrated heat will break free some seriously stuck fasteners.

[67c&ccorv]

2dog - I would be using a lot of heat from a propane torch on the water jacket side plate bolts;

...don't forget the excellent MMI stud repair kit to fix things up after - Universal should have used studs in the first place IMO;

...the carb requires much smaller and delicate screwdrivers to dismantle - something like a Chapmans Gun Screwdriver kit works very well - remember those brass/bronze fasteners have probably welded themselves together over the years - again, gentle heating should help to break the bond without breaking the screw.

[marthur]

I would be using a lot of heat

I agree with the lots of heat idea. I have had mixed success with a propane torch on big things like the water jacket bolts. That block can absorb an amazing amount of heat. A MAP or Oxy / Acetylene torch is more likely to give me the heat I need. I have both and use the MAP on the boat because it is so portable.

FWIW: On rusty fasteners in old things, I have found that "hot enough" often means red hot. One friend likes to heat it red hot and then cool the fastener with a wet rag.

All that heat is one reason that welding a nut on a broken fastener often works. That plus the usual bag of tricks: penetrating oil, impact, working it back and forth, swearing and the occasional overnight break for libations.

Good luck!

Mike

[2dogsnight]

....weekdays are filled to the brim for me, so no fun work can be accomplished....but I was doing lots of thinking about rusted bolts, and desperate thoughts were coming to mind - like hire a mechanic to do this for me
....thankfully I was able to dismissed it, and now I am looking forward to cranked up the heat this weekend
...here is first broken bolt - thread length about 3/8 ....I love this great looking washer !!

[sastanley]

we all dream of boats

2dogs...again..we all feel your pain. too busy during the week, yet we dream of boat work.

I finally broke down last week and I just got my order of Kroil delivered to work today, courtesy of "ILikeRust"s link provided elsewhere on this forum. It provided a very small pick-me-up of fun boat work to come and new tools to tackle them with!

My most recent issue was a corroded manifold stud which crumbled to nothing, so no Kroil/PB Blaster needed, but I am prepared for the next stuck beast I find.

Carry on when you can..we are here with you!

[jbsoukup]

unfortunately it looks like you wont have much sticking out to work with when you finally get the cover off. I agree that welding a nut onto whats left of the bolt is the way to go; just don't accidentally weld the bolt to the block! be patient with the remaining bolts as it's easier to get them out intact than broken. heat will do the trick but it's hard to get enough into that block to make it work. propane will get you nowhere; you need mapp gas at least. I would even go so far as to zap the head of the intact bolts with the welder to heat them up, being careful not to ruin the edges. but even if you did, you could always weld a nut on. I bought a Hobart wire feed welder from Northern Tool and Equipment for about $350 and never regretted it. A mechanic might cost as much and you wouldn't have a nice tool to show for it. Make sure to practice welding some before you attempt the real thing and put some wet towels all around so the boat doesn't catch fire.

[JOHN COOKSON]

we dream of boat work.

It works for me.
Sometimes it helps to step back and shift the problem to your subconscious mind while you do another task with your conscious mind. Work can be pretty mind numbing at times. Many times the solution or way forward will suddenly appear.

TRUE GRIT

[2dogsnight]

I need to get Kroil too for future projects...
Well....I broke-off ALL 8 bolts.....but when the motor will be out of the boat I will deal with it with Kroil and Easy Out.....I am sure that I can take care of it in speedy fashion later on....
Lot's of loose rust inside water passage...I was thinking to do a partial rebuild with motor in the boat...but seeing all this rust I want to go trough every system and make sure they will work.
Starter works, fine....took out mechanical fuel pump and need to take it apart....got screw for carburator...
Now goal is to take of all removable components and take the motor out of the boat, and have block checked etc
Thank you for all your help....I learn something new from every posting!!!

[ILikeRust]

I need to get Kroil too for future projects...
Well....I broke-off ALL 8 bolts.....but when the motor will be out of the boat I will deal with it with Kroil and Easy Out

I think at that point, I would just carefully drill them all out...

[edwardc]

Do NOT use an easy-out!! For any bolt that was frozen enough to break off the bolt, it will break off the easy-out too!! This will leave you in a much worse position, as you will still have to drill, but now there's an almost undrillable piece of hardened steel in the way!

If there's any stub of the bolt left protruding, weld a nut onto it. Then apply lot's of alternating heat, Kroil, and tapping. No large torques. It WILL eventually come out.

If they're broken off flush, you'll have to drill them out. I strongly suggest the stud kit that Moyer sells here. When I rebuilt my A4, I pre-emptively converted all the bolt holes to SS studs with their kits. Problem solved forever.

[sastanley]

2dogs..I am with Ed..no easy outs...they will make it worse.

The block around the water jacket plate is not very thick..you might (no guarantees) be able to get a vice grips or something on the tail end of the bolt from inside and start to spin it out. This may not work for all of them...but it might work for some of them.

Sacrifice drill bits...save the block when drilling..it will be tedious, but rewarding at the same time..

Use Bill T's link and get some Kroil..mine showed up this week.

edit - I am really amazed at the condition of your 50 year old engine block...it looks really good.