A WATER JACKET SIDE PLATE Adventure

[roadnsky]

Well, I hadn't intended on posting my recent project originally, but after some more thought, and reading other threads,
I decided it may help someone down the line when they enter this particular "valley of the shadow".
Plus, I can post more pictures, which always seems to keep Shawn entertained...
(Neil, I promise to also try and use some big words in a few spots)

If Bill doesn't get too upset, I'll tell the tale in more than one post in order to be able to attach pics in a "blog style"
and to do it in spurts and sections as time (and my memory) will allow.

I actually considered resurrecting Rigsy's old thread (http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2753) instead of starting my own,
because the main "theme" of my project ended up centering around a broken bolt and there is some really good info and learning experience already posted in his thread.
Man, for some reason, I seem to be "following in his previous footsteps" lately. (Before this, it was adjusting the valves)

Anyway, back to that broken bolt…

[roadnsky]

Originally, this was a pretty simple project.
I was going to replace my old, barely doing the job, Motorola 35 alternator with the 55 amp. A quick, rainy day project…
Yeah, right!
I will admit, I knew that once I had that side of the engine exposed, I had the intention of at least visiting the water jacket sideplate.
Albeit, with some trepidation, having read some horror stories about those bolts. Deep down inside, I also knew I couldn’t resist the temptation to “tinker” in there just to have the knowledge it was clean and if nothing else, to change out that old gasket. The final one on my A4.

Anyway, I finally decided that I’d start on the day before going on a business trip,
since it would buy me some time to order parts if I ended up breaking a bolt or needing something else.
(Turned out that I got that part right!)
So, off came the Alternator, Accessory Drive and Distributor with ease.
BUT, then that water jacket plate was exposed… bigger than life…
…just taunting me. So, well, why not? Off with those bolts!

The first seven actually came off with surprising ease.
But as I would realize later, it’s sort of a cosmic, mechanical joke that it’s ALWAYS the last bolt that will be the issue.
It didn’t actually feel any tighter or have any more resistance than the others.
But SNAP, off came the head of that bolt.
I actually wasn’t that bummed because I had sorta prepared myself for worse.
Just one bolt. Not so bad. And given how easily it snapped off, and the vintage of my engine, I figured it to be one of the softer bolts Don had described.
I was a bit worried though, that it was the hardest bolt to get to, being the bottom-aft one with the tightest of all access.
I tried Steve’s trick with the dremel. (Making a slot) But no joy there.

I decided to put off attacking it any further so I could read up a bit more on stuck bolts.
So I spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning out the water jacket and that side of the engine.
Which was the siren song that had drawn me into these shallows in the first place.

A word about the condition of the water jackets and plate here…
Other than a soft sludgy buildup (dust or lake silt?) and a little bit of crustiness, everything was in pretty good shape.
That said, I’m still glad I got in there to clean it up. AND, I will plan to do it every few years or so now.
The gasket was the worst. It really needed to be replaced.

It all cleaned up pretty good, so I buttoned up the boat and headed off on my trip knowing I’d be ordering new 5/16 bolts and the Bolt Repair Kit.
I also decided to go ahead and get a new Side Plate with the welded-on-alternator-bracket.

[roadnsky]

I returned from my trip with an energy to get that bolt off and finish the alternator in time for the weekend’s predicted great weather.
I had read up a bit while away on stuck bolts.
A good discussion on the MMI site is (http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...studs#post5056)

I decided to go at it with the drill and an Easy Out…
Man do I wish I’d read Don’s advice about “the ‘easy out’ being anything but an easy way out!” (BEFORE starting this!!)
Too late! Of course, the easy out broke off right in the middle of the bolt.
Damn! (That isn’t an exact quote)

So now I was faced with the same dilemma that Rigspelt faced in his post on his thread. Maybe worse!
Because of the location of that broken bolt, I only had about 9” of clearance.
Too tight for a proper angled attack with the drill.
So, off to Sears for a 90° drill attachment, tap and a supply of drill bits…

[roadnsky]

Arrrgh! Suddenly it’s Ground Hog Day!!

Heat, Tap, Drill, Oil, Drill. Dull bit. Start over…
Over and over. The limited access didn’t help my arms, back and shoulders.
(Thank God for beer and a good refrig)(And a shoulder rub from my First Mate)

I began to wonder if I’d actually have to pull the engine for that stupid bolt!
Was I getting delirious? (maybe the beer)
Two arduous dayz of this. AND, meanwhile the weather was perfect!
Pure torture…

[roadnsky]

Finally! At the end of DAY TWO of drilling, my mirror and camera finally show some progress.
Metal shavings and an actual hole!

Uh oh! That last picture sure looks like I’m now drilling off center!
Hmmm, now what?
Try as I might, with the weird angle I’m at, I can’t get any purchase to start another hole back toward the middle.
Finally, commiting to it, I drill on thru to the other side. (To quote Morrison)
As I enlarge the hole, I can see I’ve drilled out some of the engine casing OUTSIDE of the diameter of the original bolt hole.
Damn! (Again, not an exact quote)
At this point, I give up all hope of just cleaning up threads and using a new 5/16 bolt.
I’m commited to using the repair kit.
Sure am glad I ordered it and have it at the ready…

[roadnsky]

At last! While drilling with a slightly larger drill bit, the last piece of the offending old bolt falls out.
Talk about a moment of LOVE/HATE!

With a hole to now work with, I wanted to get it cleaned and dressed to get the JB Weld and the Bolt Repair Kit installed before calling it a day,
so the cold weld would have some time to set up.
And of course, I was now very anxious to know this was gonna work!!

[roadnsky]

I cleaned up the new hole with my dremel and a rounded file.
I also cleaned and lubed the “good” bolt holes as well, using Q-Tips with thread lube oil and carefully running the new bolts into and back out of their threads.

I had to make sure the new tapered bolt (repair kit) fit in the hole far enough aft to be in the original position.
Otherwise, the other bolt holes wouldn’t line up with the water jacket side plate when it was back in place.
You can see the alignment issue in the pics.
In another of the pics, you can see how I used a piece of tape like a string around the backing plate of the repair kit, so if I dropped it in the water jacket, it’s retrievable.
Came in very handy later, when it counted! Know what I mean?

[roadnsky]

I did a few dry fits to make certain of all the bolts being correct and the plate being straight and fitting flush to the block.
Then whipped up some of the JB Weld.
Maybe too much, but better too much than not enough, cause it sets up pretty quick and you want to have your act ready…

Then made sure the “other hole” next to the repair stud kept plenty of the cold weld in it while it was curing by using a stir stick until it was “staying in there” all by itself.
(You can see it in the bottom two pictures filling the gap)

Locked up the boat for the night, said a prayer and went home with anticipation of the next day and putting this part of the project to bed…

[roadnsky]

The next day the first thing I checked was that the JB Weld hadn’t run out of the hole next to the bolt nor behind the backing plate.
The mirror and camera showed me that all dried up nice and solid. Whew!
The final proof would be later when I tested it with a Pressure Flush.

Side Note:
While cleaning up the water cooling jackets I also cleaned out the drain plug just below the access plate because at first it wouldn’t drain.
A tap and coat hanger did the trick.

Did one more quick dry fit to satisfy myself that all of the bolts were in perfect alignment.
Yep, perfect! (Another little dance, a sip of Guiness…)
Applied Permatex and a new gasket (my original purpose for this mess) and
Presto! Finally had a brand new shiney side plate!

[roadnsky]

I gave it one more day then…

•Added new water hoses.
•Put a new Accessory Drive in (another post with pics)(Shawn)
•Overnight, I cleaned up the thermostat and did the hot-water-in-the-pan-test.
•Spent the time to do a Pressure Flush, which also tested that new bolt.

It held like a charm! YES!! (More Guiness here)

[roadnsky]

Now time to do what I had originally planned to do…

Install the new alternator!
Took 15 minutes. A blink compaired to the previous dayz!
I also had the Indigo Belt Tension Adjuster.
A nice convenient touch which made tightening the belt a breeze.
Inserted the Distributor. Re-timed. And then…

…yep. Started right up on the first turn.
Ahhhhh, sweet success.

[roadnsky]

Final thoughts…

A lot of the experts who have already been down these paths would read this and certainly see many of the pitfalls where I went wrong.

Because I’m a novice, I’m painfully aware of my lack of knowledge.
That’s also part of what I love about sailing. It keeps you very humble.

My reasoning for posting this was hopefully, to help another novice already in the mess I found myself in, find their way thru.
Or, better yet, to give them the confidence to give their A4 the TLC these wonderful little beasts deserve.

[Kelly]

Wow! Jerry, this is the best-dressed post I've seen on the forum. Nice photos, excellent descriptions and good humor. You could have slipped in a few more "big" words for Neil and Bill, though.

Congratulations on your work and meticulous methods. I nominate this post for a fictitious "Moyer Pin-Up Post".

Now you can enjoy the fruits of your labor...

Kelly

[Don Moyer]

Jerry,

I can only join in with Kelly's standing ovation!! You can continue listing yourself in the "novice" category if you wish, but you clearly bring a wealth of natural mechanical ability to your projects, and a secure underpinning of patience which is a very winning combination - as your end results continually prove.

Don

[Marian Claire]

Well done. I think you defiantly earned a cold one. Beyond this job the general appearance of the engine shows your skill and care. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Jesse Delanoy]

I had a similar experience a few years back. Broke off a couple of the bolt heads, including the one in the upper fore corner. Got 'em all out with the easy out, except that one - the easy out broke, couldn't drill it, had to call a mechanic to get it out for me.

When it was done, the corner hole was broken through to the plate opening, probably about 20% of the hole circumference. I also found that I had tapped the easy out in too far, and had begun to penetrate the cylinder wall - but thankfully not too far!

I used the repair kits, and glopped a whole lot of cold weld over the broken hole, then in the hole in the new side plate all around and under the nut.

It held fine for the last few years I had the engine, but I promised myself I would never open that plate again.

p.s. - the engine eventually went "home" to Don's shop in exchange for a "new" rebuilt engine about 3 years ago. I assume his guys fixed that hole right up when they reconditioned the block!

[ndutton]

Jerry,

HAY!!
Shawn got his cookie (great pictures), where's mine?

Seriously, throwing in a constipated vocabulary would have detracted from the presentation. Your treatment was too important for us to be full of ourselves. Less is more.

Compliments, nicely done.

[sastanley]

How did this get to 17 posts before I saw it?

Nice work, & GREAT pics. - I gotta get my picture skillz back up to par...I have started carrying the camera around with me again so if I happen to go by the boat or something, I can document it properly for you people.

OK, I have a question on the repair kit..did you chop off half of it? Isn't it supposed to use the adjacent hole (hopefully not damaged) with two studs sticking out to help align the busted/rounded/overdrilled hole?

Your new parts are making me jealous...the accessory drive & a new alternator are on the list. However, I just added my LED anchor light so that 35mA draw can get me thru one more season with the 37 amp alternator! :P

[67c&ccorv]

Gonna have to nominate you for "repair job of the year"!

One word of advice to any one who contemplates the use of an "easy out" for a broken bolt/stud:

"NO"!

Far better to drill the soft bolt out with a slightly undersize drill bit and then retap the threads with a tap - rather than spend your valuable time dulling a zillion drill bits on that hard brittle material "easy outs" are made from!

Don't forget to centre punch the broken bolt so as to provide a reference point for the (sharp) drill bit to bite into.

Cheers!

[roadnsky]

Originally Posted by sastanley

How did this get to 17 posts before I saw it?

OK, I have a question on the repair kit..did you chop off half of it? Isn't it supposed to use the adjacent hole (hopefully not damaged) with two studs sticking out to help align the busted/rounded/overdrilled hole?

Shawn-
I posted it late last night while at work and did it fast so all the posts would be together in a "Blog" style with no other posts breaking it up.
Decided it would be easier to follow that way.
So don't worry, you weren't gone that long!

Yes, I cut the backing plate in half.
I only needed (and only FELT like) repairing the one hole.
Somewhere in the directions it explains about cutting it in half if there's an obstruction between the holes you can't get to.
I should have also mentioned that that repair kit is super easy to use and a wonderful fix!
Now I have one for a spare just in case...
...well, I think I'll make sure not to need it!

AND, an LED project is third down on my "list", so you're ahead of me in that category!
As we know, the list will never end...

(And thanks, everyone for the nice words.)

[Zen]

WOW! What a job, I just replaced my plate and was expecting the same ordeal. However the force was with me and everything went smooth, no bangs, no bruises, no boat bites, no blood, no cussing. Rode my bike to the marina, did some meditation to calm my mind for the expected bloody task ahead. Then had at it, I was shocked none of the bolts stuck and I did not even have to remove the distributor.

picture and full tale here:
http://zensekai2.wordpress.com

I just logged on the site to order the replacement part and saw this post.

Well done job!

[Cellnav]

I replaced my plate last weekend after my plate rusted through and I had a jet of water shooting across the engine compartment. Thankfully, someone over the last 35 years used stainless bolts and anti-seize. Bless em for that. Everything went well, but I was surprised to see the inside of the cooling block was black with a greasy soot. Is this normal? The engine runs fine, compression seems OK and there's no evidence of water in the oil. Could I have a blown head gasket?

[roadnsky]

Originally Posted by Cellnav

Everything went well, but I was surprised to see the inside of the cooling block was black with a greasy soot. Is this normal?

There have been reports of various levels of crud in the water jackets when they're opened up. Soot is likely rust. Seems to be common in there.
I cleaned my passages by scraping and adding vinegar and scraping some more. Then doing the pressure Flush procedure to push all that crap out.

"Greasy" is a bit of a concern though.
When you say that, do you mean "OIL"? As in oil getting in with the water?

[baileyem]

Jerry,
It your engine really looks great. Congratulations on your patience and perseverance.
Mike

[thatch]

Jerry,
Congratulations on overcoming your EZ-out dilema. Your engine should be considered a benchmark that we all would do well to emulate.
Since the topic of EZ-out use or miss-use comes so often I thought it might be fun to have an EZ-out "wise saying" contest of sorts. In this case I would say that we could consider ourselves all as winners. I'll start the bidding with a couple: "Friends don't let friends use EZ-outs" or "Just say No! to EZ-outs". Any takers?
Tom