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  #26   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 10-24-2008, 11:28 AM
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rigspelt...good idea...I'll add it to the list once I've completed it!

It will give me some incentive to clean up the motor..there isn't much 'universal bronze' left anywhere on the engine right now.

I wonder if Don sells "flaky black crud" colored mugs?
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  #27   IP: 151.200.20.244
Old 10-28-2008, 10:54 PM
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update time

the wife and I got the boat into the travel lift slip this evening...except for the 20-30 knots in our face heading up the creek (fortunately it is protected so no waves) we were able to get there without much trouble. Waves concern me since there is NO fuel filter in the boat.

Anyway, with a good tach installed for some RPM readings, I was able to cruise at about 1,600 RPM with the engine running well. Push the throttle and it gets to about 1,800 RPM and starts running a little rough...slight miss and loss of power. I wonder if the valve and compression problems my father reported are the culprit, or this could be an ignition problem, or even a fuel problem? Today with the wind and necessity of making it to the marina for hauling tomorrow, it wasn't the time to mess with the engine, or fiddle with timing while my wife was on deck freezing (clawing off a lee shore or any shore when the motor fails from me messing with it, in 20 knots, etc.), so I just took it easy and was happy with 4 knots when we got it, and content with 2 or 3 knots in the wind.

I changed the oil (managed to remove almost 4 quarts), and pinched the bypass and sucked in antifreeze until I saw pink spitting out the exhaust. The problem today was it was about 50 degrees here on the Chesapeake and the water temp is 58 or so, and I never got the engine to open the thermostat...it never got hotter than about 140..so not much water drained out of the block/manifold, etc..but I pinched off the bypass and sucked 6 quarts of antifreeze in anyway.

OH..by the way...5/8" hose is right...1/2" is too small. - I cut a 2" piece off my intake and stuffed the 1/2" hose inside to feed the antifreeze..worked pretty well, since I'll be replacing all hoses, etc.. this winter anyway. Another thing I noticed was the poor condition of the intake for the water pump...looking pretty bad..will definitely need to be replacing some brass hose barbs and fittings this winter as well.

Once she's on the hard, I'll do another compression test, and then an MMO treatment to hold her over for the winter!

Then it will be pulling the carb to take it home, adding a fuel filter, and all the other things on my list...maybe electronic ignition so I don't have to mess with the points. I'll have to prioritize my list some, as this is all definitely being done on a budget!
ready for hauling!

Last edited by sastanley; 10-29-2008 at 10:24 AM. Reason: fixing technical errors
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  #28   IP: 151.200.20.244
Old 11-06-2008, 07:49 PM
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more update time

Finished winterizing the motor today with an MMO treatment into the cylinders. I did a compression test beforehand, just to see how things are going...90-95-90-95. Pretty sweet

Took the carb off and brought it home, so I can clean it out..it was one of those things 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' deals this fall, since I only expected to putz around the creek for a couple of hours prior to hauling.

Something funny I noticed today...the 'vented loop' in the wet hose to the exhaust is not really a vented loop. The 'loop' has a hose that connects to the sink drain. Weird.. I'll have to take a pic with the camera..the good news is, I can probably just remove that hose and add a proper vented loop into it without much re-routing.

on a side note: the hull is in much better shape than I expected..I was thinking I was going to have to remove the 30 years worth of paint, repair a pile of blisters and do a barrier coat. I think for next year, I'll just scrape the loose crap off, and paint, and can put that money towards other boat system's maintenance. If the Admiral and I decide to keep the boat for few years, we can think about things like a fresh bottom, etc. later on.

Motor plans this winter:
new fuel line from tank
fuel filters
new fuel pump bowl
all new hoses
new wet exhaust hose
replace any corroded fittings
Maybes:
pull alternator and water jacket access plate to inspect water jacket
replace that pseudo-loop I talked about above

I did a 'virtual cart' the other day at MMI of 'off-the-top-off-my-head-list' and it came up to about $200. Not too bad!

-Shawn
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  #29   IP: 151.203.110.73
Old 11-06-2008, 08:58 PM
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Not shabby at all. Don't forget new alternator belts. I plan to replace the OEM alternator with a 55 amp alternator and install electronic ignition. I haven't done points and condensers and dwell meters since my 1967 Olds 442 and I'm too old to go back now. If the condition of the plugs I pulled when winterizing didn't convince me, the recent threads about adjusting points did.

Mark
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  #30   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 11-07-2008, 09:25 AM
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alts & carbs

Mark,
Thanks for the reminder..you just jogged my memory that I have a buddy with Catalina 30, hull #2276. We were chatting about (imagine) Catalina 30s this past weekend. He has already repowered with a diesel, but kept some of his old A4 stuff..the 55 amp alternator was one of them and he offered it up for free, so I'll put on a new belt with that.

Electronic ignition is on the list..I read another thread that said the way Moyer sends out the kit, you can remove all the 'manual' parts and slap the ignitor assembly right in there..then in the (hopefully unlikely) event of failure, you could always revert to the points. My first car was a '78 Civic with points. The set screw used to slip, and on more than one occasion I was on the side of the road fiddling with the damn thing trying to get the points to open up again so I could get home!

I took the carb apart last night..oh boy..the fuel was nasty in there. I ran out of carb cleaner just trying to get all the grit and gunk out of the float bowl. I am now wondering if that was another contributing factor to the poor running conditions at higher RPM?

(note to self) - need to add carb gasket(s) to MMI parts order!

Last edited by sastanley; 11-07-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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  #31   IP: 138.88.162.86
Old 11-07-2008, 10:34 AM
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Once you see how small that main jet orifice is, you can imagine it doesn't take much to plug it up and start causing "issues". Good news is a couple of filters can take care of that pretty easy, even if your gas tank is questionable. The main fuel/water separator is the first line of defense and a small fuel filter right before the carb can take care of anything else.
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  #32   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 11-07-2008, 11:30 AM
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Yeah..I imagine the fuel is pretty old in the boat too..I was able to get almost 5 gallons in to top off for winterizing, but I suspect that maybe only 4 or 5 gallons per year has been burned the last few years. The stuff that came out of the main jet drain plug was very brown and full of sediment..I am actually surprised I didn't have more trouble...my rationale for not messing with it was that is was running, and if I start screwing around with it, I might dislodge something in the middle of the creek!

I am going to be adding the fuel filters this winter..(I've already picked up the polishing filter, just need to get the Racor next.) As far as I can tell, there was ZERO fuel filtration in this boat..I haven't found one yet.

msauntry...something else i noticed in one of your posts farther back (#21) - do you have a strainer inside the boat for the raw water as well? Is this typical or common practice? I have the thru-hull fitting and about 3' of hose to the water pump inlet...that's it...the thru-hull does have a humped bronze fitting on the hull, but I'd call it more of a sea-nettle or small fish deterrent, rather than a strainer.

Last edited by sastanley; 11-07-2008 at 11:35 AM. Reason: adding more questions!!!!??
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  #33   IP: 142.68.112.41
Old 11-08-2008, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
do you have a strainer inside the boat for the raw water as well? Is this typical or common practice?
It certainly is common practice around here. Lots of floating weeds. Wouldn't be without one.
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  #34   IP: 142.68.112.41
Old 11-08-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Electronic ignition is on the list..I read another thread that said the way Moyer sends out the kit, you can remove all the 'manual' parts and slap the ignitor assembly right in there
Almost: might need to carefully Dremmel a path in the distributor cap for the wires, but I don't see that on the Pertronix Ignitor instructions http://www.pertronix.com/support/man...itor12vneg.pdf. I had EI on a previous boat and loved it, so it was the first thing I did with this A4. MMI sells a modified distributor, but I got the Pertronix Ignitor and a new cap at a local auto store up here, then we modified the standard distributor in a few minutes.
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  #35   IP: 151.200.20.244
Old 11-09-2008, 05:38 PM
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Nice..thanks for the info...this is on the list...but down on it a little bit since the engine runs OK...first on the list is proper seacocks & thru-hulls..I think this Catalina 30 still has the original 'pipe nipple' thru hulls
-Shawn
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  #36   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 11-12-2008, 10:12 AM
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pictures!

Someone else on the board commented about how pretty everyone's engines looked..maybe MarkS, if I remember.

I wanted to assure him that not everyone's been able to make theirs look so good...I am just trying right now to keep mine running!

I took this yesterday while I was down on the boat cleaning up more P.O. stuff.

Check out those fresh plug wires!!! - I taped up the one so I could remember where it went when I took the plugs out for the winterization MMO treatment.

Last edited by sastanley; 07-25-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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  #37   IP: 206.40.166.218
Old 11-12-2008, 03:36 PM
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Stans,

Our engines are comparable in appearance, give or take a few spots either way. I wonder how close we are to the point of no return. Watch out when you deal with your thermostat! I took mine out over the weekend and now need to replace the studs. That's the way it is with old engines -- you make an improvement in one area and that leads to six other things that need to be done. I'd like to install some of Steve Markowski's plumbing engineering but I cringe thinking about what that will lead to.

Mark
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  #38   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 11-12-2008, 04:16 PM
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Mmm..more yuck!

Mark,
You are right, what is the 'point of no return?' with these motors? it seems that except for the block degrading to the point that the water jackets are compromised internally that Don & gang have been able to come up with a solution for just about everything else.

Here's another pic: the water pump is entirely green from likely years of water dripping out of the raw water intake connection. The drain tube near the alt belt broke off years ago and was repaired with Marine Tex..

One thing I did NOT do when winterizing was pop the thermostat..I simply clamped the bypass hose and let it suck in antifreeze from the intake..how much went elsewhere I dunno, but I can guarantee that this is the first year it has ever had antifreeze in it, so it has to be better than nothing, which is basically what was done in prior years. After these pics were taken I spent about 30 seconds trying to pop the thermostat housing loose and take a gander inside, but not a chance...so I started squirting penetrating stuff onto all the studs/nuts/bolts that I expect to be working on over the winter.

I understand exactly what you mean though..each little fix ends up being 3 more projects to repair what broke!

-Shawn

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  #39   IP: 98.141.38.153
Old 11-12-2008, 05:28 PM
s/v Dearbhail s/v Dearbhail is offline
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Rough looking

Shawn that is one rough looking A4!

I'm certainly not an expert with the A4 but mine is looking pretty good these days. When ever I tear into something on the engine, the alternator, starter, side plate,,, I always try to wire brush any rust I find and touch it up with some paint. I keep a can of red rustoleum onboard and a couple small paint brushes just for this job.

It makes it much easier to find an oil or water leak too.

About that thermostat. my housing was totally shot on the inside. I replaced it back in May.

Last edited by s/v Dearbhail; 11-12-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Added comment about thermostat.
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  #40   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 11-13-2008, 09:34 AM
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you're not kidding!

I saw some pics of yours in other threads..looking pretty good!

And yes, she is rough, but she still runs, and better than she did when I got her. - I worry a little bit about taking parts off, I may get into more trouble than I want to handle..meaning some of the crud may be holding her together

We'll see what I can do with it over the winter...the rest of the boat is almost as rough as the A-4, so I will have to prioritize my tasks...the first mate will likely care very little about motor aesthetics, but she'll want nice fresh cushions and a clean galley with a working stove I am sure! Anyone got some old Princess alcohol stove parts laying around?

For some more fun, here is her 'good' side..the relatively recent MMI manifold..I removed the carb and took it home to clean, and stuffed paper towels in the openings to keep out the crud.
-Shawn

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  #41   IP: 216.54.1.35
Old 11-13-2008, 12:35 PM
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Thanks Shawn, she is a work in progress.

I just received some new parts from Don and his crew so I'll be pulling the alternator, starter, accessory drive and water pump off this week. I'll give anything that needs it a good cleaning and paint, then reassemble it with the stuff from Moyer Marine. That takes care of the top and stbd sides of the engine. I'm not having as much luck reaching the port side. There is no access at all.

Mark
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  #42   IP: 151.200.20.244
Old 11-15-2008, 03:37 PM
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update!

Ripped all the seacocks off the boat today...gonna try to take advantage of West Marine's 20% off sale this weekend to pick up exhaust hose, marelon seacocks, engine hose, fuel hose, etc.etc....their 20% discount ends up being about the same price as I can get that type of stuff on the internet.

Wow 75 degrees here today in Southern Maryland! Breezy though...I also spent some time up the rig of my step-father's Tartan 3000 this morning to ring down the busted VHF antenna before it gets hauled next week...it was sporty even in the slip!
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:50 AM
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Exclamation fuel pump

OK, well I started to take apart the fuel pump yesterday evening, and have been cleaning up the water pump. I am more surprised than ever that the engine even ran given what came out of the pump!

here are a few pics of the pump/screen, & some of the fuel I pumped out of it before pulling it apart. it looks like mud. I don't know how anything got by that screen. i guess I am lucky the boat made it to the travel lift.
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
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  #44   IP: 207.200.112.140
Old 11-29-2008, 11:42 PM
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a clean bilge is a happy bilge

gloves ,goggles ,tsp a bucket of warm water ,and away you go . ps dont be like me and find out both manual bilge pumps are kaput . make sure at least one works .after the lockers and bilge are spotless paint em with bilge paint and you,ll be so proud . two coats minimum fair winds adab1402
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:10 AM
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bilge paint? Oooo...a new product I haven't heard of to cover up the P.O.'s neglect!
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:55 AM
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your fuel

Shawn, I'm amazed the engine ran with that much water in your fuel. It seriously has me wondering what is inside your fuel tank.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:37 AM
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Hopefully, that was just what had accumulated in the bowl of the pump. I brought it home and that is what dumped out when I actuated the pump lever on the workbench.

I just (yesterday) installed a Racor filter with water separator to avoid this problem in the future. I too, have no real idea except from the reports by the P.O. as to what is in the tank. He reports filling it at the end of each season and adding a fuel stabilizer. That is what I did this year, in addition to a quart of MMO to lube things up! She was running just a little bit smokey before hauling, so I'll skip the MMO in the tank for a while to get the ratio down.

Maybe I'll pump some fuel into a container so I can investigate further. I also installed a primer bulb for the fuel filter, so I can get some fuel out of the line if I want to.

Man, I can't wait until spring already!
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 11-30-2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason: more stuff!
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  #48   IP: 24.189.64.120
Old 12-01-2008, 11:45 PM
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Not to add to your list of chores...

But that thermostat housing is due to be replaced. I will try to get some pictures of my engine as I need to do some work this winter but I have already upgraded the thermostat housing to the new Moyer kit with the spacer so the cheaper thermostat can be used that does not cost $100+.
You also want to be able to open up the thermostat housing to do the winter cooling system flush(es) which require removing the thermostat and allowing the cooling water to get into the block etc. You also want the 'T' fitting in the cooling water intake line as already mentioned.
That said, you have really taken the bull by the horns and done a lot more to your engine then I have over 6 years. I need to take off and clean the carb as you have already done and investigate the fuel pump as we seem to have a fairly unsafe gas leak in the cabin.
You are an inspiration to me so keep posting your findings and your progress.
Thanks.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:50 AM
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The thermostat housing looks pretty rough on the outside, and right now I have it soaking in some vinegar and/or the parts cleaner tub to see where we end up. The thermostat itself looks ok, and I do not seem to have any trouble with cooling, as it functioned well for the few hours I was running it this fall. But, I also have no backup plan, except to remove the thermostat if it failed, as I can't see the need to spend $100+ for a spare thermostat to sit in a drawer. As a general rule, this will probably work since we cruise in the Chesapeake and the water is 75-80 degrees most of the time, so running it without a thermostat if it failed would be OK.

I'll keep plugging away at it...thanks for the words of encouragement...it is easy to get bogged down and overloaded in the details and forget the big picture that working on boats is supposed to be fun!
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:38 PM
s/v Dearbhail s/v Dearbhail is offline
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thermostat

I can post a picture of my ate up housing to show you how bad they can be when I'm home from work. I replaced mine back in May.

Your thermostat is probably ok though. Try cleaning it up then testing it in a pan cooking on the stove top. It always makes my wife happy when I take over her stove.
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Last edited by s/v Dearbhail; 12-02-2008 at 05:08 PM. Reason: added pic
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