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  #26   IP: 107.77.97.32
Old 05-15-2019, 08:45 PM
infy infy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
it's pretty clear you have a good engine with stuck valves. Stuck open, when they stick it's always open.
None of them appear to be open or stuck in the photo?
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  #27   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-15-2019, 08:54 PM
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It's hard to tell in the picture but it looks to me like #2 exhaust valve is stuck. A few can't be determined because the cam is pushing up their lifters at the time the picture was taken. #1 exhaust is out of the frame.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:41 PM
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Thermostat isn't looking great.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
It's hard to tell in the picture but it looks to me like #2 exhaust valve is stuck. A few can't be determined because the cam is pushing up their lifters at the time the picture was taken. #1 exhaust is out of the frame.
I concur. In your second valve photo, look at the third valve from the right. There appears to be a gap between the bottom of the valve stem and the top of the adjuster.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
I concur. In your second valve photo, look at the third valve from the right. There appears to be a gap between the bottom of the valve stem and the top of the adjuster.
I'll turn the engine over tomorrow. Should shine some light on the valve condition.

All the head nuts are off. Some came out with the stem. Super simple engine to work on. I'm going to try and leave as many stems in as possible so I don't need to risk breaking one.

But the head is stuck on. Going to pick up some wood blocks and wedges to hammer on it a bit tomorrow.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:33 PM
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My bet is the thermostat studs are where it's hanging up.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infy View Post
Thermostat isn't looking great.
Soak it in vinegar in your wife's favorite sauce pan.
Might take two soaks but it'll shine like new.

After that, use the same pan to boil it in water and test it.

(After that, buy some flowers)
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:44 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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While you have the cover off get a feeler gage and check the valve clearance. This may just show you where the problem is.

Have someone spin the starter while you look at the valves operating. If they are not seating with the tappet bingo.

Dave Neptune
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  #34   IP: 107.77.97.48
Old 05-16-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
it's pretty clear you have a good engine with stuck valves. Stuck open, when they stick it's always open.
I totally agree!
Its great that you got a spare engine now, but let this gang talk you though getting those valves unstuck.
Then, restore spark and fuel. After all that, you will be super confident to go boating with a good understanding of your engine.
Politely dismiss your mechanics and donate the savings to my beer fund.
You "got" this, and we got your six.
Get the manual, get dirty, keep calm, and carry on.

Greetings,
Russ
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:29 PM
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I was hoping to find a bad head gasket... but this looks on. It actually looks pretty good.

I don't have a gauge tool to check valves with me today
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:30 PM
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Cylinder #4
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:39 PM
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Video tour.

https://youtu.be/9wXn9CB_9nY
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  #38   IP: 73.83.157.183
Old 05-17-2019, 01:04 AM
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What's the best way to hand turn an A4 engine?

I did see a specialized hand crank for sale. It looks like it's designed to start an A4. Is there a bolt I can access to turn it over with a socket?
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:27 AM
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This is where some of the Catalina-30 guys can really help out. As you have already noticed, there is a kick panel blocking access to the flywheel area. Neil and I, and I assume others, have cut a "port" in that panel for insertion of any of the crankshaft rotation tools. I prefer tool # "misc_01.1_285", which serves as a rotation tool, and will also function as a "pointer" for showing TDC. I'm sure that Neil will be adding some pictures of this "C-30 specific" Modification.
Tom
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:33 AM
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OK, picture time.

Please know that there is a distinct difference between the MMI timing tool and their hand start crank. Both turn the engine manually but be sure to get the right tool for the job. To do otherwise is dangerous. A 13/16" socket can be modified by grinding slots to accept the crankshaft roll pin too.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infy View Post
I was hoping to find a bad head gasket... but this looks on. It actually looks pretty good(
This reminded me of something I posted 6 years ago:
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...59&postcount=8
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
OK, picture time.

Please know that there is a distinct difference between the MMI timing tool and their hand start crank. Both turn the engine manually but be sure to get the right tool for the job. To do otherwise is dangerous. A 13/16" socket can be modified by grinding slots to accept the crankshaft roll pin too.
Ah interesting. I also noticed that the hand crank could not fit due to poor access. It's a bit disappointing that Catalina essentially designed out the ability to service the engine without removing it.

I suppose I can cut the fiberglass and make the same modifications.

This may be a silly question but.. what if I just wrap a towel around the prop shaft, put the transmission in gear, and grab the prop shaft with a vice grip? Turn the engine over that way?
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:20 AM
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Below is a link to a 2005 thread in which Don Moyer comments on turning the engine using the prop shaft. FWIW, my own experience is that it is not difficult to rotate the engine using the prop shaft once the spark plugs are removed.

best regards,

jack.

Here's the link; Don's answer is a few replies from the top:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...read.php?t=269
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  #44   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-17-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infy View Post
Ah interesting. I also noticed that the hand crank could not fit due to poor access. It's a bit disappointing that Catalina essentially designed out the ability to service the engine without removing it
I dunno about that. I've had no problem servicing my engine for 14 years without removing it. In fact, the Catalina 30 enjoys some of the best all around engine access of all sailboats. Some Catalina 30 owners, especially the dieselites, add a teak door to access the front of the engine. If there's a will, there's a way.
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-17-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:45 AM
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I'm talking to a guy who recommends turning over the A4 to find TDC by clicking it over with the starter motor. Not manually cranking it at the flywheel or prop shaft.

Interesting. I suppose I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't take too long.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:53 AM
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I'm talking to a guy who recommends turning over the A4 to find TDC by clicking it over with the starter motor. Not manually cranking it at the flywheel or prop shaft.
Stop talking to that guy, he's an idiot. On the other hand, maybe go ahead and try it his way. You'll come to the same conclusion on your own. With my home made balloon indicator I can find #1 TDC in about 30 seconds and that includes the engine in the boat.
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-17-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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  #47   IP: 107.0.117.195
Old 05-17-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Stop talking to that guy, he's an idiot. On the other hand, maybe go ahead and try it his way. You'll come to the same conclusion on your own. With my home made balloon indicator I can find #1 TDC in about 30 seconds and that includes the engine in the boat.
Pretty smart trick with the balloon. I don't have compression since the head is off.. in fact, I have no compression with in on either

So I'm just looking to get No.1, No.2, etc to TDC so I can adjust valve clearances on each on the compression stroke.

I plan to replace all 8 valves and guides this weekend. Then set the clearances, install a new head gasket, and cross my fingers.

I wish I had access to a dial bore gauge so I could check for roundness, taper, and bore on the cylinders while I have access to them. The tool is $200.... and I'm not going to need it again for a long time
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:53 PM
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While you have the head off, make sure those cooling passages in the block (between the valves and the edge of the block) are clear. They go straight down a short way, then take a turn fwd or aft to clear the intake & exhaust passages.
Chipping at them with a small screwdriver and hammer works well, but wear eye protection with side shields. Visits to an ophthalmic surgeon are no fun.
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  #49   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-17-2019, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infy View Post
Pretty smart trick with the balloon. I don't have compression since the head is off. . . . so I'm just looking to get No.1, No.2, etc to TDC so I can adjust valve clearances on each on the compression stroke.
Even easier with the head off. TDC is a precise setting, the reason I think using the starter is a no-go.

Are you resisting cutting the flywheel access hole for some reason?
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:55 AM
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Even easier with the head off. TDC is a precise setting, the reason I think using the starter is a no-go.

Are you resisting cutting the flywheel access hole for some reason?
Not really, I don't mind doing a useful modification. One day the engine may need to be started without power. That's an awesome feature to have. I'm probably going to buy the official crank from MM.

So I'm at home poking at this second engine I bought... I mentioned that it made a mess of oil as soon as I set it down. We concluded it's coming from the flywheel area where there is no oil seal... more specifically, the oil I saw come out appeared to have leaked from here:

What exactly is this? It looks like there's a missing bolt? Do I need to plug this? If there's a part here, I could probably take it off the other A4.



Here's some more dirty A4 imagery attached
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