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Old 04-22-2019, 10:25 AM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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frustrating spring commissioning

So after a lot of work, I started the A4 yesterday and noted a bunch of issues.
1 - first it was hard starting and required a lot of cranking. this seemed to start at the end of last season. I am think it is a dirty carb.
2 - A water leak around the exhaust elbow and I hope that is what is causing the steam at the aft end of the exhaust manifold.
3- But what really surprised me is that while my daughter was in the cockpit hitting the start button, the starter would occasionally click and not spin. After repeated clicks on the start button it would spark between the flywheel housing and the starter!
I will unbolt the starter and have it rebuilt locally, clean the mounting surfaces and reinstall.
Any thoughts on what could be causing this? But ground, loosely mounted?

4 - Oh yes the shift lever was frozen....lightly tapped with a hammer and freed it up but what the heck is that about?
Thanks all

Last edited by nyvoyager; 04-22-2019 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:33 AM
zellerj zellerj is offline
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I think that cold damp winters are hard on electrical connections. A layer of corrosion forms and resistance increases. This includes the points if you still have them. I would make every electrical connection you have nice and shiny again and see if your intermittent switch phenomenon persists. Switches also need to be cleaned if they act erratically If current can't go where it should go, it follows a different path of least resistance, hence sparks where you don't expect them.
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nyvoyager (04-22-2019)
  #3   IP: 47.23.170.234
Old 04-22-2019, 10:50 AM
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thanks Jim - will check points as well. it is running rough
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:17 PM
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NY,
It sounds like you have a lot of 'deferred maintenance' issues to deal with before you'll have an engine you feel comfortable with and can rely on.
Hard starting can be fuel or electrical. As for fuel, carbs don't get dirty by themselves. The crud invariably comes from the system. Pump a sample from the very bottom of your fuel tank and see what's there. Taking a sample from the fuel delivery line won't do it - that pickup doesn't go to the bottom of the tank. What do you have for filters and when were they last replaced?
Electrical stuff will drive you batty - if you let it. I think you're at the point where every wire and every connection is suspect. If you have a multimeter, learn to use it. I filed and sanded the probes on mine to give them a needle point - I can shove them right through the insulation an read the voltage in the wire. On low range, you can read the voltage drop across an individual connection or an individual length of wire. Some boat wires can be long, so you might want an extension lead for the ground lead of your meter.
A broken exhaust can ruin your day (if you're lucky) or burn down your boat. Strip the insulation off the entire hot section and inspect the pipe. Do this every few years. Plan on replacing all your hot pipe every 6 years or so - don't wait for it to fail.
I've had one loose starter give me issues. I think it was on a Triumph TR-3.
The shifters I've worked on are cheap mechanical things. Moving parts are brass with plastic bearings. Castings are some cheap alloy. Corrosion takes its toll, and hitting it with a hammer to get it moving doesn't get you out of the woods. You need to take it apart, clean it up, lubricate things, and reassemble. This assumes you can take it apart without breaking anything. Be prepared to deal with set screws, snap rings, etc. Perhaps post a photo or three? Preferably before you break it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:54 AM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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Thanks Al - yes a number of things to deal with. I am getting close to pulling this one engine and calling Moyer
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:10 AM
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Most of the 'maintenance' issues I mention above will NOT be corrected by changing the engine! A new engine will not correct the fuel system issues, rotten wires with bad connections, or a corroded shifter.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:58 AM
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Update:
1 -still hard starting will check points and timing
2 -Water leak at exhaust elbow fixed, thermostat and gasket installed. replaced raw water hoses on water jacket side.
3- Starter bolts were loose causing sparking. These bolts should have lock washers on them. While at it, made a spacer for the alternator mount and tightened the belt.

4 Tranny is still the item I am concerned with. Any insight on how to make adjustments?
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:41 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyvoyager View Post
Update:
1 -still hard starting will check points and timing
Check to be sure the choke is closing all the way.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:44 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Al makes a very good point. Have you checked voltages for bad connections? Have you tried an aux tank to confirm the fuel is not the issue? Did you check the choke visually?

Most all break-downs have little to do with the engine itself unless something breaks internally. Pretty much any other scenario has to do with what and how the engine is supplied.

Clean fuel, clear exhaust, properly timed blue spark all must be supplied to the engine only the compression is actually in the engine and that is often just a valve adjustment.

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Old 04-25-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyvoyager View Post
4 Tranny is still the item I am concerned with. Any insight on how to make adjustments?
Can you tell us a bit more info as to the issue?
"the shift lever was frozen"
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:28 PM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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Yes I can - thanks
long story short - last fall just about to transit plum gut the engine started overheating...little water was flowing out the exhaust....new waterpump didn't help. it turned out to be a clogged elbow on the lift muffler.
Which meant i had pumped some water into the crank. Oil changed twice but i'm not convinced all of is out....and then the boat wintered
The lever on the engine was frozen. i gently tapped it with a hammer back and forth and it is free now.
I'm still on the hard but had it running for about an hour yesterday. it goes into forward and reverse...not sure if it is fully engaging
I am thinking of opening the case but don't have a clue what i would be looking at.
There is definitely thick mucky oil in the crankcase
Poured MMO into the crankcase . will run it again and change the oil this weekend once more

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Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Can you tell us a bit more info as to the issue?
"the shift lever was frozen"

Last edited by nyvoyager; 04-25-2019 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:01 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyvoyager View Post
Yes
The lever on the engine was frozen. i gently tapped it with a hammer back and forth and it is free now.
I'm still on the hard but had it running for about an hour yesterday. it goes into forward and reverse...not sure if it is fully engaging
NY
After this event with the tranny\shifter check the adjustment to be sure the tranny is fully in forward\reverse when the cockpit lever is in that position.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:31 AM
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Here is the procedure for adjusting your reverse gear (see attached)

Also, there is a really good video by Don on this topic as well.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Adjusting Reverse Gear.pdf (13.1 KB, 506 views)
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:37 AM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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Excellent - thanks everyone.
I'm heading to the boat in the next hour and will check the points made on this thread one by one.
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:42 AM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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Okay. Getting there.
Adjusted choke cable
New plugs and wires
One of the distributor wires was loose and a bad plug on number 4. It looks like the electrode in the center is extended much further than the other Plugs.
Points up next
Attached Images
 

Last edited by nyvoyager; 04-27-2019 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:29 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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I don't recall this being mentioned in this thread.......
Get copy of the Moyer A4 service and overhaul manual. The book is worth its weight in gold.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:19 PM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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I have a copy and yes worth gold. Not sure what you are pointing to John?
Just haven't gotten to tranny yet. Soaking cover bolts

Last edited by nyvoyager; 04-27-2019 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 04-27-2019, 10:15 PM
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:28 PM
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That's one ugly plug. No spark from that one!
I'll add a step to your shifter adjustment. First, disconnect the engine shift lever from the boat linkage. Use the engine shift lever to shift the transmission into forward - you'll feel it go past the detent. Now, move the boat linkage to full forward - it should go about 1/8" past the hole in the engine shift arm. If it goes further, you're losing travel which will eventually come out of your neutral deadband. Adjust boat linkage as needed.
Next, shift the engine lever to full reverse. You may have to remove the transmission cover and back off the reverse adjustment to get it there. Then, move the boat linkage to full reverse and verify that it goes past the hole in the engine shift arm.
Once you've done this, you can be sure your boat linkage is giving you all the travel there is in the engine. Snug up the reverse adjustment so it doesn't slip in reverse. This should give you a good neutral band.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:37 PM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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Thanks Al.
Long story short - I've been dealing with water in the crankcase today
At this point, before I go any further I need to pressure test the block.
I made a new post to address this.....if all goes well I'll revisit your post. Thanks Al.
Even though it is runinng great - Truth is i feel this engine is on borrowed time....



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Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
That's one ugly plug. No spark from that one!
I'll add a step to your shifter adjustment. First, disconnect the engine shift lever from the boat linkage. Use the engine shift lever to shift the transmission into forward - you'll feel it go past the detent. Now, move the boat linkage to full forward - it should go about 1/8" past the hole in the engine shift arm. If it goes further, you're losing travel which will eventually come out of your neutral deadband. Adjust boat linkage as needed.
Next, shift the engine lever to full reverse. You may have to remove the transmission cover and back off the reverse adjustment to get it there. Then, move the boat linkage to full reverse and verify that it goes past the hole in the engine shift arm.
Once you've done this, you can be sure your boat linkage is giving you all the travel there is in the engine. Snug up the reverse adjustment so it doesn't slip in reverse. This should give you a good neutral band.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:20 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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NY, have you done a compression check? A head gasket could easily leak just to one cylinder. The plug does look to be fouled by water & oil.

Dave Neptune
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:38 PM
nyvoyager nyvoyager is offline
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Dave a compression test is the next thing i need to do.
I want to pressure test the block.
The engine seems to be running fine (on the hard with no load)
I just spent the day cleaning the oily mousse from the crankcase following last fall's overheating event
I cut it with 2 quarts of kerosene (which worked well), extracted it all and followed up with 3 oil changes. it's better but not still not clear oil... Which is why i think i need to pressure test the block.
My thoughts are that i have spent in inordinate amount of time and at 44 years this raw water cooled engine is on borrowed time.
Looking for some encouragement or to just pull it and buy a Moyer engine.
Just not sure yet
Thanks
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:56 PM
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Here is some encouragement, my A4 is 53 yrs old, never rebuild, I have had it for 43 yrs. I do change oil a couple of times a season and keep it well tuned. If you got good compression I would keep it. I bought a later model with a short block rebuild A4 25years ago thinking I would need it one day - still in storage.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:14 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement Sam - It seems to be running fine.
I'll pull the #4 plug again and see what it looks like - but it sounds good. A compression test and another 2 oil changes and I'll see where i am at.
And I just realized extracting oil from the gearbox is not going to get it all.....so that may explain the watery oil still


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Here is some encouragement, my A4 is 53 yrs old, never rebuild, I have had it for 43 yrs. I do change oil a couple of times a season and keep it well tuned. If you got good compression I would keep it. I bought a later model with a short block rebuild A4 25years ago thinking I would need it one day - still in storage.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:15 PM
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I think if you pump the oil out of the dipstick hole and have the tube all the way down you will be fine. My early model has a small hand pump build into the pan just under the carb - very difficult to use. After pumping oil out of the dip stick hole using a vacuum changer the hand pump yields only an additional pint, not really a big deal. A dozen years ago my engine/bilge was under water [another story] and water displaced all the oil in the engine - remember pumping out a couple gallons of water. Had to cycle "add 4qts oil/run engine to temp/pump out" 3 times to clear water in crank case. Takes a little work to clear the water. good luck.
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:21 PM
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:56 PM
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Update

got back out to the boat and here's the summary
1. changed oil 2 more times for a total of 5 oil changes
2. run engine for a few minutes after each oil change
3. the good news is all the oily mouse/sludge is gone.
4. bad news is there is still a lot of water in the oil.
5. new moyer water pump as of last fall so I think i can rule that out.
6. decent water flow out exhaust
7. the engine runs and sounds fine - no misses or sputtering
8. pulled plugs - #1, #2 & #3 are fine, -#4 looks like it is running rich and maybe a bit of oil on it

I think my next step is to pressure test the block.
Should that turn out okay - take a hard look at the exhaust side
Any other thoughts?
fingers crossed and thanks
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