1972 E27-Fixing Everything

[CajunSpike]

Was first trip with that much motion, yes.

Original metal tank was removed due to rust thru earlier last year.

Since then I've put a total of 12 gallons in the new plastic tank.
This was done in two 6 gallon batches.

First 6 gallons had no issues, ran till empty.

Then again 6 gallons this time.

Not wanting to fill the tank since I don't go very far with it...yet.

[Peter]

So likely not the tank then

"This was the longest time the engine has run continually since I had the boat."

Are you confident the tank vent is clear?

P

[CajunSpike]

When I replaced the tank, I put a new vent line from the tank to the outlet.
Line has a circle loop in it as suggested by these good people. Outlet opening has a screen in place and is facing downward.

The circle loop is taped in place to keep it where it belongs.
I guess I should check there is no kink in the line that would block it and that the tape is still in place.

Can see the tank vent upper left side corner of stern. Pretty small.

[Peter]

Seems when you go to the boat this weekend you need to check basics

1) fuel - do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If not install one. Easy to do and an incredibly valuable trouble shooting device.
2) do you have spark? As I have learned from reading John Cookson's posts, unplug the wire that runs from the coil to the distributor at the distributor end, hold it about 1/2 inch from the block/ground and crank engine with ignition on. You should get a nice spark.

And of course the usual caveats about not leaving the ignition on for prolonged periods and closing your raw water intake if you are cranking with no start to avoid flooding exhaust/engine.

Oddly, it strikes me that you should hope the engine does not start when you get to the boat again. If it does, you are looking at trying to solve a problem that only appears after extended running...

Related to that - did you happen to notice what your temperature and oil pressure were doing just before these shutdowns?

Good luck!

Peter

[CajunSpike]

Because of more bad weather moving in, only stayed at the boat a limited time today.

Removed the trashed genoa. It was twisted badly on the furler. Took a while to untangle the remains and find the hold up line.



Powered on the batteries, set the choke as normal.
Engine fired right up . Let it run for about 10 minutes idling.
No issues evident. Go figure. I've read about running issues on EI systems due to overheating of the coil. I specifically got the coil from Moyer which was supposed to have the proper resistance built in but did not actually test the ohm value. As of this writing, I have no proof of what caused the no start condition.

Engine gauges are in the cabin, not viewable from the driving position.
Guess thats how it was in 1972. Was otherwise distracted but should have noted what was up.

Have temp gauge, voltage meter, rpm meter.

To do list from this incident:

need water/fuel separator(any suggestions?)
fuel pressure gauge(pump is 3-5psi max electric). Current pump is an aftermarket automotive pump. Do have the facet pump that came with the engine but it was not wired up and working when I got the boat, so just bought a new pump.

The only thing I've touched on the motor lately was to make a #1 tdc timing mark on the fly wheel and time it with a timing light.

[Al Schober]

That damage to the jib looks like more than just the UV cover!
As for water separators, I would suggest a two stage answer. Stage 1 is to annually pump a gallon of contents from the bottom of the tank into a viewable receptacle - Carlo Rossi makes a nice one, but you have to empty it. See what's there - good stuff goes back into the tank, bad stuff gets disposed of (properly?).
Stage 2 is a Racor fuel/water separator/filter.
Personally, I've got more faith in #1. Keep the tank clean and you'll have a LOT less problems downstream (which is the entire fuel system).

[CajunSpike]

The jib came apart in pieces as I was removing it. The entire bottom uv strip parted from the body and the sail tore in half about 1/3rd from the top. Its trash.

Found out it was made by a company North Sails which has a local shop in this town. Guess I'll see how much another jib is, for fun.

Another slightly smaller usable jib came with the boat. If the rain/wind wasn't so strong when i was there, would have installed that as well.

I hear the racor name all over the place.
West Marine has one for about $100.

That motor running/quitting is going to drive me crazy.
I would even possibly believe the fuel was sloshing so much the fuel pump caught air.
Except....the motor quit when we had left the worst waves and it was not as rough.
Also when I was sitting tied up at the marina dolphin and inside the marina on my last start attempt, it was flat calm and would not start/run.
Probably had 5 gallons in a 12 gallon tank.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Get the engine running then shake all the wires involved in the boat's and engine's parts of the ignition and electronic fuel pump circuits. Maybe the rough seas were breaking\ making a loose connection and this is why the engine ran OK in the slip.

TRUE GRIT

[Administrator]

How did the engine die? Like you flipped a switch, or like someone was choking it to death?

Bill

[CajunSpike]

First indication of trouble was a change in the sound of the motor...slowing down, some loss of power, but still running. After about a 30 seconds of this, the power came back on and returned to normal for about another 5 minutes.

Then it gradually slowed down till it dropped dead and would not restart(like it ran out of gas).

This pattern repeated when I -was- able to get it started a few times. The restarts were very iffy. One or two pops..little coughing, then the other cylinders started up when it would start.

It was NOT a flip off. Was more a petering out till it stopped spinning.
Restart gave little indication of firing off. Strong cranking, just no running.

Did I just convince myself has to be fuel issue and maybe had a blockage in the tank line due to the rough waves stirring up something? Even though the tank may be new, doesn't
necessarily mean the gas was clean. When I do put a fuel pressure gauge on, I want to have it in a spot that can be seen with the engine cover assembled. Pointless to have a gauge
where you can't get to it.

[Administrator]

Two easy to-do's still on the list:

1. Jump the OPSS.
2. Crack open the fill cap when the engine is acting up.

Bill

[edwardc]

First indication of trouble was a change in the sound of the motor...slowing down, some loss of power, but still running. After about a 30 seconds of this, the power came back on and returned to normal for about another 5 minutes.

Then it gradually slowed down till it dropped dead and would not restart(like it ran out of gas). ...

This sure sounds like running out of fuel. One suspect is the float's needle valve. If it's gotten gummed up by bad fuel, it can randomly stick shut, and the float bowl will run dry in a minute or two.

[CajunSpike]

When I first got the boat, I obtained a carb from a guy who said it had been rebuilt. Put that in back then, but did not help it run. At that time, the real problem was misadjusted points.

Later I replaced it with a carb from the net which was virtually unused and new. Thats in the boat now.

So if it comes down to it, I have a supposedly good carb I can swap in as a trial.
And I still have the original uncleaned carb....so that makes 3.

Also found the spark arrestor that was not on the carb when I got the boat.
I had bought a replacement spark arrestor, so one is extra.

Going back to the boat tomorrow to replace the jib with the spare.
Depending on how cold it is, may pull the carb to inspect it or do some other fuel testing.

I have a separate fuel pump I can use to setup a fuel loop thru whatever water separator I get.

[CajunSpike]

Situation update

Weather was clear/not too windy/not too cold to make it to the boat today.

Dug out the backup jib that came with the boat. Never thought I'd use it but was glad to have it.
Spent a few hours figuring out how to reinstall the jib and make the furler work right. Took a few tries but finally got it the way to supposed to be.
The holdback ropes have been tied with double knots on the sail and the same on the end near the cockpit. Should not pull out of holding pullies again.

After that was time to work on the fuel system.

Had stopped at west marine for a water separating filter but they didn't have a unit in stock, that I wanted. Just went back with small clear filter for now.

I removed the inline clear fuel filter near the tank. While I had the lines open, I blew into the line from the tank expecting to get bubbles in the tank but got nothing but air. So part 1 of the problem was low fuel in the tank. Installed a new clear filter.

Went to wally world, bought a 6 gallon portable tank(to go with my 3 gallon tank), and filled both up. Used the fuel transfer pump to move the fuel from the porta-tanks to the boat tank.

Turned on the key so the onboard pump would pickup gas and fill the clear filter....except....the filter did not fill up. Was not expecting this. Hooked up a fuel transfer pump to the tank line. Was able to pickup fuel and fill the clear filter using the transfer pump. Moved the lines back to the inboard fuel pump, turned on...no filter fill. So part 2 of this was the fuel pump died.

Was about to close up the boat and go get a pump when I remembered there was a facet fuel pump that came with the boat. It wasn't hooked up when I got the boat so it was stuck in a bag, not being used. I dug it out and set up a test to see if it would pump gas into a bottle. It did.

I removed the in place pump and installed the facet. Key on, facet started buzzing. Cranked engine and it fired right off. Let it keep running for about 10 minutes, had no issues.

Doubt I'll ever know if running the pump dry is what killed it.
All I know is replacing the pump, now lets the motor keep running.
Pump was from O'Reilly and would go from 1-5 psi. Going to trash now.

The other side of this is that much more gas was burnt than I expected, when beating into the waves.
I was expecting I would have 4 to 5 gallons in the tank...but didn't.
Have to keep that in mind.

Much rather have an answer than a mystery.

[Administrator]

I removed the inline clear fuel filter near the tank. While I had the lines open, I blew into the line from the tank expecting to get bubbles in the tank but got nothing but air. So part 1 of the problem was low fuel in the tank. Installed a new clear filter.

Hole in pickup tube?

Bill