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  #1   IP: 68.227.86.142
Old 06-30-2016, 03:53 PM
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Question Water in carburetor

Infuriating sporadic problem with water getting into the carb. I've been trying to figure this one out for some time as it's inconsistent but when she wouldn't start again today I knew exactly what to do and drained the carb to find the offending brown water drops coming out with the gas. I have meticulously been through the filtration system over the years and found no problem there. (I have three filters on the line...1 Sierra, 1 racor and just before the carb there's an inline. So filtration is well covered!) I have tested the gas coming through and no sign of water.
It suddenly occurred to me that maybe there's a hairline crack in the manifold that is allowing a small amount of cooling water to drain back into the carb through the port when the engine is at rest. Any thoughts on this? The water is brown.
When the engine runs, its just fine with no lumpiness that might suggest water.
I'd prefer not to pull the manifold but if you knowledgeable guys think that may be the issue then I'll go ahead and get it magna-fluxed.
Thanks...John
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:39 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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John, are you finding the water in the "float bowl" or in the throat of the carb?

If water is in the throat the water could be coming in from above like a crack or leak in the manifold.

If the water is in the float bowl it is most likely from the fuel supply. Your tank may have the bottom that is just below the "pick-up" tube full of water and when sailing or rocking it will show up but not necessarily on a "calm" no rocking day.

Dave Neptune
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:53 PM
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You can usually discover a leak in the manifold water jacket rather easily by removing both hoses, holding your thumb over one of the brass fittings (on most boats the rear fitting is usually the easiest to reach and block with a thumb or finger), and then blowing into the fitting on the other end of the manifold. If access is limited on both ends of the manifold, you can pick up a short length of 1/2 ID hose at any auto parts store to extend one end until you can blow into the hose by mouth.

Bill
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  #4   IP: 132.147.29.249
Old 06-30-2016, 05:21 PM
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My old engine did this when water migrated along the manifold bolts. Also it can be exhaust flooding.
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Old 06-30-2016, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
You can usually discover a leak in the manifold water jacket rather easily by removing both hoses, holding your thumb over one of the brass fittings (on most boats the rear fitting is usually the easiest to reach and block with a thumb or finger), and then blowing into the fitting on the other end of the manifold. If access is limited on both ends of the manifold, you can pick up a short length of 1/2 ID hose at any auto parts store to extend one end until you can blow into the hose by mouth.

Bill
A manifold pressure test is now in order.
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:59 PM
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Cool

Thanks for the opinions gents. I'm fairly confident of the fuel supply integrity as last year I actually drained the tank entirely and replaced with fresh gas. I've replaced the fuel hoses and filters. I haven't left the slip since the time all was fine and the latest episode of water in the carb, so sloshing in the tank is unlikely. Plus I've checked the supply at multiple points in the system and everything is "crystal" (if I may quote Jack Nicholson!) until I get to the carb. Water is in the float chamber.
I opened up the carb last night and along with the water was a fair amount of debris...small dark particles and some powdery residue. (Salt from the cooling system?) I realize the debris points to supply unless it's falling down from the manifold. Just ran my finger around the inside of the manifold intake and it seems to be moist and oily. Time to pull it off for a good pressure check. Need to order a manifold gasket first in case this one is history.
Happy 4th everyone...guess what I'm going to be doing!
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Old 07-01-2016, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndowney View Post
...Water is in the float chamber.
I opened up the carb last night and along with the water was a fair amount of debris...small dark particles and some powdery residue. (Salt from the cooling system?) I realize the debris points to supply unless it's falling down from the manifold. ...
Unless I'm seriously confused, I don't see any way for any kind of leak in the manifold or cooling jacket to get water into the carb's float chamber. They're all downstream of the carb. The ONLY way into the float chamber is through the fuel line. The debris and water has to be coming from your tank or filters.
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Old 07-01-2016, 05:53 PM
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What was the condition of the fuel you took out of the tank last year?

Bill
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:26 PM
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"Small dark particles".... Didn't we have a thread a while back about non-A1 fuel lines slowly deteriorating?
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:55 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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There is a way to nail this down: Run off an auxiliary tank and see if the water in the gas goes away.
The original poster said he drained the tank and overhauled the boat's fuel system last year. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here but this ethanol laced crap that is sold in the place of real gasoline nowadays has a nasty habit of of puling water in which combines with the ethanol, phase separates, and sinks to the bottom of the tank.This may be very well what is going on. Another suspect is the fill cap might not be tight and is letting water get into the tank.
IMO the tank as a source of water in the carb is very much in play until proven otherwise.

TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 07-02-2016 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Changed "OP" to "original poster"
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Old 07-02-2016, 03:22 AM
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Despite last year's tank drain and fresh fuel and the accompanying confidence it brought, the consensus is you are dealing with contaminated fuel. After you confirm that for yourself (I think you already have) you'll have to find the source of the contamination or else you're doomed to repeated episodes, like now.

For starters, simply draining the tank and refueling may not be thorough enough. Residual muck in the bottom of the tank often contaminates the fresh fuel and here we go again. Consider that the muck came from somewhere so cleaning the tank only prepares it to receive fresh muck, the reason the source must be found.

And as mentioned previously, while you're at it confirm all your fuel hoses are rated A1-15 ALCOL, the big fuel fill hose too. If they're not you can expect continuing contamination problems.
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Old 07-02-2016, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
Unless I'm seriously confused, I don't see any way for any kind of leak in the manifold or cooling jacket to get water into the carb's float chamber. They're all downstream of the carb. The ONLY way into the float chamber is through the fuel line. The debris and water has to be coming from your tank or filters.
So it would seem--however, the carb is downhill from the manifold so if sufficient water was getting to the throttle bore area it is conceivable something could get into the idle ports and thence to the interior of the carb. Far fetched? Perhaps, but we have seen some strange things here.
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Old 07-02-2016, 03:30 PM
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The Horrible Worst Case Scenario

Butterfly is a nice tight seal. Manifold leaks water into intake port, thence to bore. Glug glug down the hole...

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 07-13-2016 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 07-02-2016, 04:35 PM
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John's suggested auxiliary tank test in post #10 will yield excellent information and provide a clear direction toward resolution. Highly recommended.
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Old 07-02-2016, 08:40 PM
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Even easier

After next running leave the throttle wide open overnight and place a container under the carb to see what collects, or not.
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Old 07-03-2016, 03:08 PM
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Thanks again to all. To address a couple of points raised...
I am not sure of the condition of the fuel I removed last year. It went into old fuel cans that a local boatyard worker said he would "polish". (The fuel, not the cans.) I told him to keep it and he just put it into his car tank without any treatment. The car ran fine.
The hoses were all purchased from West Marine and I can't imagine them selling sub-standard hose, but I'll check that out. Not sure if there is a semi flexible hose from the deck fill to the tank as that is all encased in teak bridge deck. (Bermuda 30 owners will understand this.)
The diagram of the carb illustrates very well the unlikely worst case scenario of manifold leak managing to enter the float chamber. (Wish I'd thought to look at that before.)
I like the idea of running from a an auxiliary tank. I don't have one but will look into that.
Meanwhile I've had a couple of ideas to try.
1) with the carb off, I'll put a plastic baggy over the manifold inlet port and then gently pressurize the manifold cooling jacket by capping one end and attaching a hose to the other. See if I get any moisture in the bag.
2) Picture this...the fuel tank is actually shaped like an inverted wedge with the outlet to the pump a simple fitting about an inch up from the bottom of the sharp end. It was from here that I drained the fuel last year. I tried my best to get that last inch or so of fuel out using a vacuum pump but I fear some was left below the level of the fitting. So, I'll drain the fuel again and heel the boat over as far as possible to see if I can get the dregs out. If it's contaminated then I'll need to cut an inspection port in the side of the tank to gain access and clean it up. But I'm still amazed that water and debris can get past three filters.
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Old 07-03-2016, 07:10 PM
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John - My boat is a Bermuda 30 so I know exactly what your fuel tank is like. Mine is monel but has a top fitting for fuel pick up as well as a bottom fitting for draining (no longer kosher in USCG land). I agree that it is unlikely the problem is the tank but you need to test all theories. I'm still betting on a crack in the manifold or possibly a leak via a stud that holds the manifold.
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