two freezed cylinders

[paulw]

Hi,
I'm a new Afourian due to the fact that my engine seized. I enjoy reading here and followed the advice - put Kroil in the spark plug holes and wait. But my 4 and 3 plug holes are full of oil, so that means the oil hasn't flowed into the cylinder, is this correct?

My question is is there any other way to turn the flywheel as it means cutting wood to get my starter off? and (2) is it possible to turn the flywheel when the access is from the side? (So that the screwdriver would be perpendicular to the engine block, rather than access from the water pump side with the screwdriver parallel to the block, where I have 4 inches of working space)

I like working on the engine but this is more than I bargained for.

Thanks Paul W Berkeley CA, MV "Mojo"

[Al Schober]

Technique is to remove the spark plugs and add a tablespoon (maybe 2) of oil to the cylinders. You are NOT trying to fill the cylinders - any such attempt will fail due to intake or exhaust valves being open.
Best way to turn the engine is using a tool through the hole in the center of the flywheel cover.
Let me ask why the engine is frozen? If raw water got into the cylinders, your valves are likely stuck too. If your oil level is high, there's likely raw water in the bottom of your sump that will have to be removed.
Suggest you start thinking about what you will have to do to get the cylinder head off. This could be required to free valves or to directly impact the tops of the pistons to try to loosen the rings.

[paulw]

next steps to unfreeze my frozen pistons

Al, thanks. I've seen your posts here and always read them.

I'm afraid of those studs. Some will likely break and tapping out the old stud takes skill that I dont know I have. If the stud snaps at the block, I can't imagine getting that stud out, even with a tool, reverse screw or die. How to drill into a 3/8 " diameter stuck stud - I don't see me winning.

The oil is pooled into # 4 & 3, so the oil isn't sliding past the piston, I presume, or does the valve has something to do with it? #1 & #2 I can pour oil in and it goes down, no pooling.

How much force can a piston take, say hitting it with a soft mallet & a 2x4?

Tell me that could work and I can tap the stud hole and I'll go for it.

Thanks a lot Paul Afourian

[paulw]

more next steps

Al, to your points, I cranked the engine with the thru hull open - 3-4 weeks ago. Before that it was fine. Running at 180-200 with good oil. That's just a few weeks!

I don't see oil in the water but I presume it is there. Re turning the flywheel, it wont budge yet. I've read others have had to saw to get access to the flywheel teeth, I hope that's possible coming from the side, not back. I've got a Ranger 33

[roadnsky]

Re turning the flywheel, it wont budge yet. I've read others have had to saw to get access to the flywheel teeth, I hope that's possible coming from the side, not back. I've got a Ranger 33

Paul-
How have you been trying to turn the flywheel?
Do you not have access to the flywheel like I do on my Ranger?
(Under the cabin stairs)

The usual technique is to use a tool that fits into the roll pin in the front of the engine. (Flywheel)
Also, note that it turns COUNTER Clockwise.

Have you checked your oil level on the dipstick? What color is it?

[Al Schober]

Paul,
First step is to let the oil soak a bit. Give it a week or two to soak into the rings. While it soaking, you can think about a tool for turning the flywheel.
Impacting the piston works best when it's at the midpoint in the cylinder. If the pistons are at top or bottom center, the impact will go into the rod and bearings rather than the rings. When you impact the piston, two things can happen. Best is that the rings will come loose from the cylinder wall. Worst is that you'll damage the piston (broken land between the rings or cracked top) and need a new one.
Removing the studs is usually not a problem. Snap-On makes a great tool that I recommend (their CG-500) that grips the fine thread on the stud without damaging it. The studs near the thermostat housing are potential problems due to leakage from the housing causing the stud to corrode and lock itself in the head. Such a stud will have to be drilled - part way through the head usually frees the head.
If a stud does break off flush with the block, drilling will be necessary. Start with an undersize left hand drill using the head and suitable pieces of metal tubing as a drill guide. If the threads in the block are damaged, there are repair options available.
Don't know what your access is to work on the engine in place. Keep in mind that pulling the engine is NOT a big deal - just a few hours work. Working on the engine at home or in a shop is good - most of us find it therapeutic!

[paulw]

Road n Sky
thanks I did get the crank - so far it's not enough even with a 2 ft extension, so the mystery continues.

[paulw]

frozen motor

Al - I like the idea of letting it soak - more room for optimism that way. I'll look up that tool, and hope I never have to use it. Thanks. I still think it takes alot of skill

[roadnsky]

Road n Sky
thanks I did get the crank - so far it's not enough even with a 2 ft extension, so the mystery continues.

Hmmm...
Have you checked your oil level on the dipstick? What color is it?

[paulw]

2 stuck pistons

Jerry

I did check, it isn't milky, but I am told that water can have got in and not show and sign of it on the dipstick.

How do you get to be a MVP Afourian?

[roadnsky]

Jerry
I did check, it isn't milky, but I am told that water can have got in and not show and sign of it on the dipstick.

Did you notice if the oil level has risen or is unusually higher?

How do you get to be a MVP Afourian?

Mmmmmmm, that's a Bill question.
I think it has to do with being a certain age and how many scars you have.

[JOHN COOKSON]

How do you get to be a MVP Afourian?

Definitely a Bill question.
One thing that will help is to gain enough A4 knowledge that you can help others with their A4 problems\questions.
Do you have a copy of the MMI A4 service and overhaul manual?

ex TRUE GRIT

[paulw]

John,

The oil level isn't higher, surprisingly. I'm putting alot of Kroil in, it has to change. I wonder why you ask though?

Re the properties of Kroil, I'd like to know how it eats the rust? What is the process? It could be that I should leave the oil in for weeks. I don't know when the rust eating reaction quits?

[Al Schober]

If water gets into the sump, it will sit in the bottom under the present oil. It will raise the oil level that you read on the dip stick. If you run the engine with the oil in the sump, it will mix with the oil turning it into a brown 'mousse' and getting to the bearing surfaces.
I would recommend sucking out whatever is currently in your sump and seeing what's there. If it's just clean oil, put it back in the sump. Discard any water.

[paulw]

Al,

Thanks. If I pump out the oil and find only oil, that should mean that something is broken, rather than that the cylinders are rusted, is that correct thinking?

I was wondering if air pushed into the spark plug holes by a compressor would be helpful? It seems like it would push the kroil down past the piston.

Second, if I take off the head, will I be able to see what the problem is?