C&C 30 MK1 Main Sail Question

[sdemore]

My C&C 30 MK1 project boat came with 4 head sails (3 hank-on and 1 furling), but no main. The specs call for a main with a 34' luff, but if I hook a tape measure to the halyard, it measures about 35' 4" to the top of the boom.

Does anybody know what size sail I should really be looking for, and equally important, does anybody know of where I might find one? I've tried the more common shops (Bacon, Minneys, Second Wind, Atlantic, Masthead, etc).

Thanks folks,
Steve

[Al Schober]

Steve,
What specs are you looking at?
First, the main probably doesn't go up as high as your tape measure. The sail will have a headboard which has to go between the mast and the backstay. Are there any black bands taped/painted on the mast?
Second, is the boom on a fixed gooseneck or does it slide on a track?
If you're going to race the boat under PHRF, you'll have to live to the measurement rules or take a penalty. If you're a member of a yacht club, talk to your measurer. Mainsails have to fit between the upper black band and the boom. If the gooseneck is on a slider, there will have to be a lower black band too. The PHRF documents will tell you these limits for your boat - your sailmaker should have them.
If you're not going to race, it's easy. Do what you want.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Remember the measurements quoted by the "shops" are with the sail stretched in it's working position. Thus a 34 foot luff may end up being 34"3" when stretched. Also don't forget to consider the foot measurement.

TRUE GRIT

[sdemore]

Al, Thanks for the info. I'm not planning on racing at all, just learning to sail and enjoying some peaceful time on the bay with my wife!

The specs I'm using are from sailboat data http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1288 and they match the numbers that Bacon had in their computer.

I just ran down to the boat to see if there is a band and I do see a yellow tape band. Not sure if that it the right one, but it is a good foot and a half below the halyard.



I guess that means I need to stay with 34'...

Steve

[JOHN COOKSON]

Is there another tape band for the tack?
Now that you know the correct luff measurement just for fun you might want to measure the distance between the two bands to see if they are correct.
Do you know what the bands are for?
So the race committee can see if anybody is using a "cheater" to big main.

TRUE GRIT

[sdemore]

No markings on the bottom.

If it isn't a safety thing and I don't plan to race, is it OK to go a little taller than the stripe? I'm having all kinds of trouble finding a properly sized sail, but have found a few between 34 and 35'.

[Van_Isle]

Well I'm a C&C 27 owner .... but if you look at the line diagram on the sailboatdata.com website, you'll see the upper band ... it's a fair ways down from the masthead ... and as far as I can see matches pretty closely to the yellow band on your mast. So your measurements seem to make sense ... 34-foot luff with approximately 1-1/2-foot above the upper band. Your gooseneck is fixed ... so I wouldn't expect a band there.

What's your hull number and year of the boat (look for your Hull Identification Number (HIN), usually molded into the stern and hopefully it's also on the documentation that came with your boat (like the marine survey and bill of sale).

Here's a note regarding change of the boom height starting hull no. 507 in 1978 ... making the 'P' dimension 33-feet vs. 34-feet: http://www.phrf-lo.org/index.php?opt...coun&Itemid=48. So if you are prior to that change, looks like 34-feet is pretty-well confirmed (those are the guys that assign the handicap rating for racing on Lake Ontario ... so they should be pretty careful to get it right).

And as far as a sail goes I would recommend you sign-up over at C&C Photoalbum for the listserv and post a question on that: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/. A fellow there looking for a C&C 34 genoa was just offered a free one by one of the members .... so you never know. Also there's probably a fellow C&C 30 owner or two in your area who would be willing to visit and run through the boat with you.

Oh, and they also have the owner's manual available for your boat, if you didn't get one with it. All sorts of useful info in their manuals.

Hope that helps!

[sdemore]

The boat is a 1973 model, so should be the 34' measurement. The HID is (I think this is the right number) CCY30155O373.

I'm new on C&C Photoalbum and have tried to post to the listserve a couple of times, but I don't think it is working right (I must be doing something wrong). I'll give it another shot.

Thanks for the info!
Steve

[Van_Isle]

CCY30155O373

CCY is the manufacturer code
30 is the model
155 is the hull number
I think that is a 0, not an O, so that makes the certification date March 1973

Interesting that it is CCY. That's supposed to be Rhode Island plant, but it didn't open until 1976 (I think prior to that boats destined for the US market used the CCY code. Canadian sold boats used ZCC).

[Al Schober]

Yep, fixed gooseneck so no band needed there. Upper band is about where I'd expect it. Notice that it's tape, and the tape isn't broken on the aft side so the headboard never went higher than the tape.
If you can't find a main with a 34' luff, you have two options. First is a luff that's shorter than 34' - easy to deal with. Just hoist it until the luff comes taut - it will be short of the band, but so what - you'll be sailing.
Second is one that's bigger than 34'. You could hoist to the band then cunningham the luff, but there's the question of leech length (which is also likely to be long). A long leech will give you a low boom at the cockpit, which can be painful.
A sail that's a bit oversize can be recut. Basically, you keep the tack, then recut the head, clew, and leech. This opens up the possibility of adding a couple of full length battens at the head - a plus if you plan to race PHRF. I'd also look into going loose foot at the boom. This would need a sail that's only a foot or so oversize, and in very good to excellent condition. No sense working with an old blown out rag - all you'll get for your money is an old blown out rag with a little different shape.

[sdemore]

Al, wouldn't it also be possible to get a slightly larger luff and raise it past the band? If there is a foot and a half of usable mast above the band, would it hurt anything to use some of it? I don't plan to race, so that part isn't a concern, but would I be subjecting the mast/boat to stresses it wouldn't be happy with?

Steve

[Boat]

if your not racing and do not intend to get a PHRF rating, you can go above the band. You have a good foot there to play with when looking for a used sail. its not a big deal. pay attention to the foot, you would rather have the foot of the sail a tick short than to long. as far as stresses on your rigging?? if you topple the mast by having a 6" taller mainsail you have bigger problems than getting the wrong sail.

[edwardc]

if the upper battens are full length, increasing the main's lift above the tape band will increase the chance of the batten ends getting hung up on the backstay when tacking, especially if the sail has a lot of roach (the amount of sail that extends beyond a straight line between the head and the clew*)


*Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail_components

[Clucas]

Al, wouldn't it also be possible to get a slightly larger luff and raise it past the band? If there is a foot and a half of usable mast above the band, would it hurt anything to use some of it? I don't plan to race, so that part isn't a concern, but would I be subjecting the mast/boat to stresses it wouldn't be happy with?

Steve

You need to consider that the headboard on the main needs to fit inside of the backstay. Much of that foot and a half is not usable. Having the main hang up on the backstay is going to mess up both the sail and potentially damage the rig. Want a more powerful main? Go with a sail that has a bit more roach. Going too much higher than the band may leave you stuck with a sail you can't use.

[sdemore]

Thanks for the comments! It isn't about wanting more power, I'm having trouble finding an appropriately sized sail. I've checked all the major used sail lofts that I can find and nobody has one 34' (+/- 6") with an 11' 6" (- 6") foot. I've found several in the 34' 8" to 35' 2" range and was trying to find out if they would work. It sounds again like I should stay as close to 34' as possible.