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View Poll Results: Would you have any interest in a cabin heating system? | |||
Yes! Tell me all about it, and when can I order one? | 32 | 35.16% | |
Hmm. Sounds interesting. | 39 | 42.86% | |
I doubt it. | 15 | 16.48% | |
No way. | 5 | 5.49% | |
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll |
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#26
IP: 68.56.183.151
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heat and hotwater
i had a force 10 catalytic propane heater in my tartan from 96 till recently. I rarely used it but was nice for the ICW run which i did several decembers ago.
dont ever sleep with the heater on-you may not get a chance to sail the next day Hot water would come in handy for both heating the cabin and for washing -showers. I have a heater core from a ford van (1979) it is simple and could be plummed in with the fwc side. but that really only blows heat. what could be done is a tank with copper pipe running thru it. Taking the hot water off of the engine and returning it can be tricky to keep the engine at 180. I built a tank on a van that took radiator water and some approx 1/2 -5/8 tubing maybe 10 feet long coiled (big coil) in the tank. it got hot quick. also i dismantled a store bought 6 gal dual water heater. the coil for water heating was so small it was laughable but compact. now that i live in florida i need air condition- i am working on that. i need to take a household 5000 btu unit and rework it to cool my vee berth and run on a honda or other quiet generator. just another project. I would like to find a water cooled coil (condenser) instead of the standard air cooled fan that blows out of all house and window a/c units. The col side (expansion) would seill be fan driven (ducted maybe) After charley I put a 10000 btu a/c unit in the betroom and the tag says it draws 7.5 amps (at 110-125). i was on a few boats that had counter mounted a/c units they had the water cooling option. Also there are units that just circulate seawater into a coil (radiator) and just blow a fan. for milider temps that could work. not here in the state of moderate oven but I am heading north again permanently soon and heat may once again be my concern. it seems that when it it too hot to sail in fl then people dont sail-n=mostly the wind also dies. we had up o 30 knots this weekend- it was great washed off the rail and cabin |
#27
IP: 76.100.53.229
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Heater Craft sells a "marine" heater core and a standard heater core. I think a standard one would work fine since a heater shouldn't get much splashing inside your cabin anyway. Plus, the only difference seems to be the shroud (alum vs. steel) which would be easy to touch up if you get corrosion.
The heater core in my van isn't worth replacing when it clogged up, so I ordered a core from Summit Racing, the "house" brand. They ended up sending me the Heater Craft standard unit. It is well built. Cost under $140. When the van goes, I'm keeping the unit and putting it in the boat, after I get FWC of course. Last edited by msauntry; 10-02-2010 at 10:40 PM. |
#28
IP: 207.206.237.230
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What about cutting out the extra step of piping hot engine water to a heater with fan. Is it reasonable to install some sort of small fan in the engine compartment that can blow warm air out of the compartment into the cabin through holes or louvres cut in the engine box? Of course, electric fans and gas fumes play poorly together, so is there some sort of special spark protected fan or remotely mounted fan-and-hose system that might work?
Bill and Jeanne T-34C #453 Otter |
#29
IP: 76.100.53.229
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Not safe enough since CO2 could blow into the living areas.
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#30
IP: 173.166.26.241
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I'm not exactly sure how this got resurrected but I would make the following suggestion. There are a number of forced coolant heaters available for boats and RVs. I have a Red Dot on board Destiny but it has a weakness in that the core mesh over the copper tubing is aluminum, a big no-no in galvanic series-intelligence-land. If Moyer Marine developed a unit with all marine grade materials (ie electromagnetically compatible), I would get in line to buy one.
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#31
IP: 24.20.192.248
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Heat out of an a4 kinda wimpy
I have ared Red dot hooked up for cabin heat and as stated before in an earler post it does work .. but the A4 just does not produce enough heat... my heater is in the middle of the boat and even with wrap over the heater hoses its just a slight warm never gets hot and prob would not keep up in colder weather
At best it seems a better raditor and heat exchanger than a heater my boat is a fwc boat and their must be better way.. it would prob do just as well to leave the engine door open and let what heat of the moter do the same thing..just my thoughts and am open to other options |
#32
IP: 173.166.26.241
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The Red Dot heater needs to have 180 degree coolant AND a strong pump especially if the run is long. The MM 502 is the best coolant pump I've ever used.
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#33
IP: 173.166.26.241
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If you are having trouble getting any heat out of your Red Dot heater, try routing the antifreeze to the heater directly from the exit on the manifold. I know this sounds unorthodox, but I run the coolant without any valves from the manifold to the Red Dot, thence to the hot water heater (engine exhanger inside), and finally to the exchangers. My only valve in the system is the bypass from the Dole thermostat. If you want to get anything out of the heater you must run a thermostat.
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#34
IP: 216.115.121.253
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My heater is just as Hanley suggests(see earlier post) except I have ball valves everywhere. They don't seem to affect the flow much. I get pretty good heat, but not like a car.
The engine runs at ~180, and I can divert more coolant to the heater if I want with the valves. Getting the coolant temp up is key. If Hanley is correct that the Redot needs 180F, then a lot of raw-water-cooled boats will not work well for hooking up a cabin heater. Winter is coming, Russ
__________________
Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1 "Since when is napping doing nothing?" |
#35
IP: 173.166.26.241
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If I were going to build and market a cabin heater for the A4 fleet two considerations would be at the top of the list. First, the core should be all salt water compatible materials (the casing could be high temp plastic). Second, a shut off valve incorporated right handy at the unit. The valve need only shut off one hose if the heater is in it's own loop; this would have the effect of "dead ending" the heater without having to go into the engine room.
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#36
IP: 24.20.192.248
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Engine Heater
Have an A4 Fwc with a Red Dot hooked up and works pretty good as a heater or an engine cooler..looking to figure out how to not have to keep re-adjusting the ball valve prior to the Hx and get the same heat from idle to full power any thoughts ..
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#37
IP: 173.166.26.241
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Sounds like you have your heater in a separate (parallel) loop. How about an in line thermostat in the heater loop?
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#38
IP: 24.20.192.248
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Engine Heater
Already have a thermostat ...do I remove the one on the engine and install a dole at my ball valve location
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#39
IP: 173.166.26.241
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In order to get decent heat out of the heater first you need to stabilize water temp throughout the rpm range at 180 F. This might mean a different thermostat.
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#40
IP: 148.170.241.1
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My cabin heater is the little propane camp stove next to the sink. Which probably needs replacing at this point (the stove, not the sink).
__________________
- Bill T. - Richmond, VA Relentless pursuer of lost causes |
#41
IP: 206.186.167.6
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With a cabin heater using the cooling water from the engine means you have to run the engine for probably quite some time to make a difference in the cabin, seems a very expensive and environmentally unfriendly way to do it! Yes, if you've been running the engine for quite a while it will work but how often do we do that, especially when it's so cold you need to heat the cabin. Simple solution is to plug in at the dock and run an electric fan/heater.
In a previous boat I had one of these catalytic propane made-for-boats cabin heaters, bought from the UK, worked great! Anybody know of a device that one can place on the stove burner (like a toaster) that works well to dissipate the heat? Bob (sv 'Dovetale', C&C Corvette, Ontario, Canada) |
#42
IP: 128.154.131.114
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A couple of clay flowerpots, turned upside down, work great, especially if you can train a small cabin fan to blow air across them. The downside is that with propane stoves, the combustion process produces a lot of water vapor. This can result in every fiberglass surface dripping like a rain forest by morning!
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@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#43
IP: 199.173.224.31
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So do we have a heater?
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#44
IP: 72.237.58.121
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Water to air heat exchanger. The A4 is the boiler and add a fan. Same principal as a hydronic heating system. Now, where to mount those
solar hot water evac tubes. |
#45
IP: 76.11.110.224
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If looking for a heater one needs to be looking for something vented safe, installed safely, economical, will run when the engine isn't running and can be left running overnight in the boat. Engine heaters are not much of an option on a sailboat.
It's one thing to be nestled in a cove with a lantern going and it's able to keep the boat heated in the spring or fall...it's a completely different thing to be sailing and need heat for crew or family as the boat is underway, motion of the sea etc...especially in adverse conditions. That's really where a heater is needed. Just this past weekend I was asked to go on a 100 mile ocean race and didn't go because they had enough crew. I went for a 40 mile ocean sail and followed the boys out. I was back at the dock at 5pm but the boys didn't make it back until the wee hours of the morning. It was warm when I was out there and winds were up to 18, then dropped off a bit as I was coming back in. Weather called for 30kts of wind and rain through the evening... they ran through it all the way home with it on the nose...said weather set in just after I made it back on the dock. Was talking to the skipper and asked how they did...his answer was to the point. "We lost the race in the last 15 miles because we were all to cold to do a sail change" I couldn't believe the answer but they needed to put up a large jib as the wind died down...they'd run for hours in wind and rain...dark and stormy on a 47 footer! They all got wet and despite bringing sweaters, wet weather gear etc started to feel really cold and lethargic on the last leg. I know he only told me that because he knows my background and I asked about warm gear and mentioned about staying warm and not waiting to get cold before putting on more clothes (that appeared to be the issue). I have to say I took it for granted that the boat has a heater but she's a racer...so every bit of weight counts. She may not have one installed...this same boat does the Newport to Bermuda (1st in her class 2 years ago and 2nd in her class this year)...not complete amateurs. If anyone has ever been on a boat with a Webasto or Propane heater installed ( I have) there is some real heat that comes up out of the cabin and to the helmsman as well, very warm on the face. It is my humble opinion that the heater needs to be it's own entity, be able to kick some major BTU's for hypothermic sailors and not be tied in with the engine. I think it should have it's own dedicated supply of fuel as well. FWIW I use a propane lantern on cool days with the hatch top open about 5 inches...it warms the boat. It would never do for a really cold night or ocean sailing where the temps drop down at night. I also have a propane Coleman Ceramic heater on the boat ... I find the lantern better. I have been thinking of putting in a heater...it will be a diesel Webasto when I get around to it. Apparently you can buy the Webasto and install your own vent etc to make it marine. They have " marine" ones as well but apparently it can be done for under $1000.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#46
IP: 24.152.131.153
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I won't pretend that we have anywhere near the temps as most of you but when boating in the winter and Catalina nights turn cold it's time to bake a batch of cookies in the oven. It's just enough to cut the chill and brings side benefits.
Hot buttered rum doesn't hurt either.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#47
IP: 65.19.76.79
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I am all for a wall mounted stand alone vented heater. We had temps down in the 30's with a hard frost last weekend, probably the coldest night we've spent on the water. Ultimately, I don't see using the A4 as a heat source to be safe. Also keep in mind make up air for proper combustion. So it would have to be a coaxial vent pipe. Fresh air in through the outer pipe and exhaust through the inner pipe, one penetration through the deck. Boats are not obviously tight as homes, but in a confined space, lack of air for proper combustion will kill you.
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#48
IP: 216.115.121.240
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Mo, they said "We lost the race…" Seems to me that a heater was a good piece of racing equipment. No?
Hypothermia can really set in fast when you are just sitting in the cockpit hanging on to the tiller. Decision making ability goes out the window and you start to do stupid things. Very fast. Good advice to get dressed first. Like a reef in the sail, Do it before it is not possible. Comfort is also a safety issue. Russ
__________________
Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1 "Since when is napping doing nothing?" |
#49
IP: 76.11.110.224
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Quote:
Trivia: O dark 30 ... is pronounced " Oh dark 30 " .... been saying it for years....referring to time we always say it's 3 O'clock, (oh)0600 etc...
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 09-23-2014 at 11:29 PM. |
#50
IP: 32.211.28.40
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Just two comments:
First, used to have a pressure Kero Force 10 heater. When it worked it was great (better than the flower pots over the alcohol burners), when it didn't it was a PITA. About 3 years ago it wasn't working well, I was playing with it, and almost burned the boat down. Brought it home to work on and (you guessed it) almost burned the house down! It went into the trash and hasn't been replaced. Second, friend with a Catalina 42 has a forced hot air unit - a thing of beauty and a joy forever. I think it's an Espar unit. We came back to the boat one evening with my teeth chattering, he turns on the heat, in less than a minute there's hot air coming from the ducts. Gotta love it! |
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