Engine won't start and I'm at my wits-end

[gary gerber]

Thanks for the input. My Racor filter does not have a drain... I do intend to replace it ASAP.

By the way for those interested, I have an ORIGINAL Universal Atomic Four Parts book. This book has exploded drawings for all the A4 components with part numbers. If it doesn't get too crazy, I can scan individual pages and save in my document file to Email, or at least provide part I.D. info. I'm sure however, Moyer has everything one would ever need.

[Flagman101]

Closed valve on the gaz tank??
For a filter to be clogged to tthe point of not letting any fuel pass.....it would be a very old filter.

[rigspelt]

By the way for those interested, I have an ORIGINAL Universal Atomic Four Parts book. This book has exploded drawings for all the A4 components with part numbers. If it doesn't get too crazy, I can scan individual pages and save in my document file to Email, or at least provide part I.D. info. I'm sure however, Moyer has everything one would ever need.

Check out the documents posted here, including what I think might be that manual in digital form:

http://knowledgebase.engines1.com/default.asp?id=330&Lang=1&SID=

or go to http://www.westerbeke.com, click on "Search by Model" and scroll the dropdown list to Universal Atomic 4. Original operator's manual and parts list.

[gary gerber]

Thanks, RIGSPELT that was an excellent lead. I have checked out the site.

[ChicagoNewport27]

Progress!

Okay, so I didn't get this issue settled before the boat went in the water, but oh well. Life happens when you're making other plans! The boat went in the water 5/15, and I got a tow to a slip (just a temporary home). In the slip, I reconvened my troubleshooting, as follows...

With the distributor cap and rotor off, I set about troubleshooting the simplest thing: getting a spark. Why could I not get a spark anymore? A few days ago, I did briefly witness a spark after installing the Ignitor electronic ignition, but I managed to fry the Ignitor.

I removed the damaged Ignitor, and re-installed the old breaker plate and re-timed the engine. I then hooked up my jumper wire directly from the main battery terminal on the starter silenoid to the positive (+) terminal of a brand-new coil (just to be on the safe side, I put on a new coil). When I turned on the power, I used my multimeter and verified that power was indeed going where it needed to go. I then used a pencil to open and close the points to see if I got a spark.

Nothing.

I then took the breaker plate back off (after disconnecting the power jumper), determined to see if there was a short or loose connection somewhere. I tested the continuity of the ground wire which leads to the negative side of the coil (checked out fine), and examined the condenser. The condenser wire looked suspect, like someone had pinched it under the cap and exposed some wire, so I tossed it and put on my spare condenser. Having put on a new condenser, I then reattached the breaker assembly, double-checked the gap on the open points, and reattached my power jumper.

SPARK! Darn nice spark, at that! So, apparently, something funky was happening with that previous condenser?

I took the following videos of the spark (because I was THAT proud of it).

NOTE: The spark only shows intermittently on the video, because the spark flashes faster than the frame rate of the recording. The clicking you're hearing is the spark, even if the camera doesn't capture it.

[YOUTUBE]Zyh87rV9UHo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]JGfrXJTjwws[/YOUTUBE]




Since I was now getting a solid spark, and the engine was timed, I figured... WHY NOT TRY TO START HER UP?! But alas, nothing is easy or me with this engine.

Upon trying to start the engine, it would do nothing but sputter and produce dramatic puffs of smoke.

See for yourself...

[YOUTUBE]2MyrFpzjvIk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]azg0mn_uwyc[/YOUTUBE]


So, now what? What do I check now?

Whats causing all that smoke + non-starting?

[ChicagoNewport27]

By the way, you'll notice in the videos that I've taken the alternator off to get better access to the distributor.

I've also taken all other wire leads off the coil's positive terminal to minimize sources of failure in my attempt to get a spark (you'll probably notice the big jumble of wires that appears in the left side of the video's view; those are various instrumentation leads that I've disconnected to simplify life). This seems to have helped my troubleshooting endeavors immensely.

[Administrator]

Way to go!

Although the feature has been there for a year or two, I think you are the first guy to embed a YouTube video directly in a forum posting.

One of the things that really adds to the value of this forum is the ability to include audiovisual information. The images are immensely valuable, and the YouTube videos even more so, I think.

BTW, did you have the choke closed when attempting to start the engine?

Bill

[ChicagoNewport27]

Way to go!

Although the feature has been there for a year or two, I think you are the first guy to embed a YouTube video directly in a forum posting.

Neat! A picture is worth a thousand words, they say.

BTW, did you have the choke closed when attempting to start the engine?

I tried it both ways, open and closed, with the same result.

[Administrator]

I tried it both ways, open and closed, with the same result.

Not to belabor the point, but you visually verified that the choke was completely closed?

Bill

[ChicagoNewport27]

Not to belabor the point, but you visually verified that the choke was completely closed?

Bill

I worked the choke lever as far as it would go in both directions, trying to start it after each manipulation. However, No, I did not look inside the carb each time to visually verify that the choke actually did close when I had the lever in the closed position.

How would I visually verify that? Would I have to remove the flame arrestor?

[P30_889]

Smoke

I am currently trying to work out an issue with my A-4 on another thread. I have seen that exact puff of smoke on my engine. I have a stuck intake valve and no compression on cylinder #1.

I will take my camera down to the boat from now on to take video of my fun.

Dave

[tenders]

Dude, you are close, close, close. Clearly you have fuel, air, and spark. She wants to work for you. But that smoke occurs because the intake valves are open at the wrong time and the exhaust is getting blown backwards out the air intake. That's a "backfire" for an Atomic 4.

That happens because either (1) one or more valves is stuck open--rule out with compression check or (2) your engine is out of sync. Maybe it's just mistimed, which you check by rotating the distributor adjustment throughout its range while trying to start it. (It's also possible that the centrifugal advancing weights are frozen, but I've never had this problem and am not sure how to diagnose this.) Or, your wires may be properly placed on the spark plugs and distributor, but the distributor itself may be incorrectly installed--like 90 or 180 degrees off. Mess with this by labeling the "correct" positions for the plug wires on the distributor but then removing all four wires and reseating them ALL on the distributor cap, one place clockwise or counterclockwise at a time until you've gone all the way around the distributor. And try to start her up at each reseating, rotating the distributor through its range of adjustment.

[roadnsky]

How would I visually verify that? Would I have to remove the flame arrestor?

Yes you'll have to remove the Flame Arrestor.

However, it's worth doing. I had a hard starting problem a while back and when I actually checked the choke this way it wasn't completely closing.
After adjusting the choke cable, it started great every time!

Congrats on the spark! You're getting there!

PS-Sorry for the boring still pic. I didn't have a video...

[ChicagoNewport27]

Dude, you are close, close, close. Clearly you have fuel, air, and spark. She wants to work for you. But that smoke occurs because the intake valves are open at the wrong time and the exhaust is getting blown backwards out the air intake. That's a "backfire" for an Atomic 4.

That happens because either (1) one or more valves is stuck open--rule out with compression check or (2) your engine is out of sync. Maybe it's just mistimed, which you check by rotating the distributor adjustment throughout its range while trying to start it. (It's also possible that the centrifugal advancing weights are frozen, but I've never had this problem and am not sure how to diagnose this.) Or, your wires may be properly placed on the spark plugs and distributor, but the distributor itself may be incorrectly installed--like 90 or 180 degrees off. Mess with this by labeling the "correct" positions for the plug wires on the distributor but then removing all four wires and reseating them ALL on the distributor cap, one place clockwise or counterclockwise at a time until you've gone all the way around the distributor. And try to start her up at each reseating, rotating the distributor through its range of adjustment.

Going to the boat after work tonight, so I will try this. Thanks!

[MikeB.330]

I'd say Tenders is on the correct trail with the timing being off 180 deg. It sounds like the dist. was put back on with the #1 cylinder @TDC on the Exhaust stroke and not intake stroke. At least you know the flame arrestor is doing it's job or you would have seen flames and not smoke.