2012 Return Run to the Vineyard

[lat 64]

Can you refine crude oil with it?

Hanley,
I have a lot of respect for your innovations, but that looks a little.. um.. well, hazardous. Is it just a mock up?
I'd be afraid of vibrations rattling it 'til something cracked. Maybe truss it up like your exhaust?

Don't come north yet, it's -35F. up here.

[hanleyclifford]

Hanley,
I have a lot of respect for your innovations, but that looks a little.. um.. well, hazardous. Is it just a mock up?
I'd be afraid of vibrations rattling it 'til something cracked. Maybe truss it up like your exhaust?

Don't come north yet, it's -35F. up here.

Thanks Russ. Yes, it could be a little shaky and a threaded rod style support is planned. The unit which includes the clear filters ahead of the pumps is well balanced and the two pump brackets are thru bolted to the cockpit deck support. But it never hurts to be super careful...and I will avoid your neighborhood until you get into the positive degree figures!

[edwardc]

Hanley,

Nice initiative, as always.

I think that the way the return is plumbed, the same fuel will just recirculating the loop over and over, with the small amount used by the A4 being made up from the tank.

What you really want is a second return port into the tank, preferably as distant from the pickup as possible. That way, the pump's considerable volume capability will be put to use refiltering as much fuel as possible.

It seems you'll also need some sort of pressure relief valve in the return line. Otherwise you'll kill the pressure delivery to the carb.

Keep up the good work!

[hanleyclifford]

Thanks Ed. The picture of the red tank shows the vent has been turned into a vent/fuel return - note that the vent side is elevated so the returning fuel drops into the hole instead of going out the vent. Testing at the dock with the return valve wide open showed no problem on the return capacity, and enough fuel getting into the carb. Of course, testing underway at full cruising rpm will be more definitive. Not seen in the picture is another "polishing" filter in the return line so the fuel is going to be polished 'round and 'round.

[edwardc]

Thanks Ed. The picture of the red tank shows the vent has been turned into a vent/fuel return

Aha. I didn't catch that that was the vent line. Thought it was the fuel pickup. Now it makes more sense!

Testing at the dock with the return valve wide open showed no problem on the return capacity, and enough fuel getting into the carb. Of course, testing underway at full cruising rpm will be more definitive. Not seen in the picture is another "polishing" filter in the return line so the fuel is going to be polished 'round and 'round.

So essentially, you're using the valve, and the additional filter, as a restrictor in the return line to insure adequate pressure to the carb. Simple, and probably more reliable than a pressure relief valve. Hope it works a full throttle. Keep us posted.

[TomG]

Hanley,

Is that teflon tape on the threads?

[hanleyclifford]

Hanley,

Is that teflon tape on the threads?

Yes, except the 3/8" NPT T-fitting at the vent which has Permatex 2.

[TomG]

Hanley,

FWIW, some of the experts recommend against Teflon tape on gasoline fuel systems...even the stuff supposedly rated for gasoline. Here's a link from our friends at Jamestown Disributors: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...and+Fuel+Lines

YMMV.

[hanleyclifford]

Hanley,

FWIW, some of the experts recommend against Teflon tape on gasoline fuel systems...even the stuff supposedly rated for gasoline. Here's a link from our friends at Jamestown Disributors: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...and+Fuel+Lines

YMMV.

Tom - Thanks for that and the link. The subject of teflon tape has come up here from time to time. I can only say that I have used it for over twenty years (the cheap white stuff, not even the "approved" yellow stuff) without incident. I may be getting away with it due to the low pressure of our systems or the fact that I am very careful not to allow tape into the passages or that I always thoroughly clean or replace fittings. I never double clamp but always use all-stainless clamps. There may be other considerations and I invite further comment. Regards, Hanley

[TomG]

Hanley, I pretty much figured you were dialed in, but I also remembered you having some peculiar carburetor/fuel contamination issues on the trip down that forced you to tear down the carb a few times. I didn't know if the teflon tape was associated with your fuel issues or not. Teflon tape is real "no-no" on airplanes, so perhaps that's where my bias comes from. It's good hear you've been successful with it.

Did you ever figure out what was causing your fuel problems?

[hanleyclifford]

Hanley, I pretty much figured you were dialed in, but I also remembered you having some peculiar carburetor/fuel contamination issues on the trip down that forced you to tear down the carb a few times. I didn't know if the teflon tape was associated with your fuel issues or not. Teflon tape is real "no-no" on airplanes, so perhaps that's where my bias comes from. It's good hear you've been successful with it.

Did you ever figure out what was causing your fuel problems?

Tom - I have the theory that my fuel problems were caused by ethanol cleaning fuel system components and sending it downstream. This is based on the color and composition of the crud, brown and crumbly - not white as would be the case if the particles were teflon. Dave Neptune suggested that my secondary filters were not of sufficient capability to handle small stuff and acting on his advice I have added the Moyer Marine 7-10 micron units from the catalogue, in addition to the recirculating system. I will be adding the threaded rod support for the assembly as recommended by Russ, and further suggestions and comments are much appreciated. Regards, Hanley

[sastanley]

Hanley, I initially used teflon in my fuel line fittings too, and when I had to bail on a sunset cruise with the captain when the engine wouldn't run without choke, and instead take home and break down/clean out the carb, I am pretty sure I flushed a piece of teflon out of the main jet. I immediately removed all teflon and went to all Permatex. My carb is going on 26 months now without a cleaning. Granted, I probably only have 40 or 50 hours on it since then .

Incidentally, a marina in Key West, FL proudly advertises on a big sign at the end of their dock "NO ETHANOL FUEL".

link to thread

here is a pic of what I got out of the bottom of the carb.

[sailhog]

Shawn,
My family and I are recent transplants to Florida (Panhandle area), and I was surprised to find that many if not most marinas sell non ethanol fuel. I'm pretty sure it's unique to Florida. My previous marina sold it, as does our present marina. They do a lot of business with people buying gasoline for their small engine machines -- not just boats -- for the same reason Capt. Hanley mentioned. Don't tell any Iowa farmers about what's going on down here!

[High Hopes]

Hello Afourians. Comments appreciated on the picture attached. Please note: this is not a fuel polishing system. This is a...device, fuel, pressure regulating, recirculating, 1 ea.

It looks aweful, and I love it!!
It reminds me of that kid's song, "The head bone's connected to the neck bone, the neck bone's connected to the shoulder bone . . ."
This is obviously a work of love. I bet she runs just fine.

Steve

[hanleyclifford]

Cobbling Along the Road

Components gathered from various "possible" pouches on board. The rod is 3/16" bronze threaded for 10-32 NF. The collar is an old 5/8" bronze nut the original use for which is long forgotten. The bracket is a spare VHF masthead antenna mount.