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  #1   IP: 98.237.210.251
Old 05-23-2010, 08:24 PM
winterhawk winterhawk is offline
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1st start up, no water coming out.

This is a late model A4 in a Yankee 30. They have a midship engine with a stand pipe in the head.

I fired the engine up today for the first time in 2 years. I have new exhaust hose, it's a long run 14 feet of hose, plus the stand pipe. I assumed I'd have to wait a little bit for the stand pipe to fill up. But even after running the engine for 30-60 seconds 3 times no water came out of the exhaust.

The boat is on the hard so I had a couple 5 gallon buckets of water in the boat. At first the water went down a bit, and a finger over the end of the hose revied a little bit of suction. Not a lot. From time to time the suction would increase but then went limp again. I shut her down, made a call and a friend says check the impeller. I pulled it and it looks OK, but I'll replace. All the hoses in the cooling system are new. I pulled the T stat and visually inspected. Looks ok. reinstalled.

Where should I start?
should I start with some sort of flush? Maybe start to isolate where a blockage may be by unhooking a hose here and there and verify flow?
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:38 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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Question 1st Start up

Winterhawk - Give us a little more info. Are you fresh or salt water cooled? Have you checked the point where water is discharged into the exhaust system? This seems to be a persisent trouble on A4s.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:18 PM
winterhawk winterhawk is offline
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Raw Water cooled.
I have not checked the point where the cooling water miexes with the exhaust.

I'll start there and work back tomorrow and find out where i'm loosing flow.

Upon further reading (calder) my impeller is not so good. When I flex the tabs they have a lot of cracks in the tabs.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:50 AM
thatch thatch is offline
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possible hose problem

Winterhawke,
The symptoms sound similar to "the old intake water hose collapsing under suction syndrome" When this happens the pump will normally work for a brief period and then will stop pumping as a "soft" intake hose gives way to the substantial suction created by these pumps. Of course any impeller with cracks should by replaced to improve the pumps efficiency and to prevent your having to locate the vanes in some other area of the motor later on.
Tom
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:00 AM
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I presume the raw water throughull was open.

No missing bits from that old impeller?

What is "a stand pipe in the head"?
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:50 AM
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winterhawk,
Keep at it. When I started my engine on the hard, I had trouble getting the freshly rebuilt pump with all new hoses to suck water. I primed the intake hose by filling it with water to get the pump wet, and from then on, it seemed to pull from the bucket OK, about 2 gallons per minute if I recall, but getting it to start pulling water was the hard part.

As mentioned, replace that impeller before it starts breaking off pieces...that is a real pain. (see RobH2's thread!)

Also, make sure you have the prop tied so it won't spin. The 'transmission' of the A4 can slowly spin if it isn't set just right...we don't want to wear out the cutless bearing, as it requires the water flow of a moving boat for lubrication.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:49 AM
Figment Figment is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatch View Post
Winterhawke,
The symptoms sound similar to "the old intake water hose collapsing under suction syndrome" When this happens the pump will normally work for a brief period and then will stop pumping as a "soft" intake hose gives way to the substantial suction created by these pumps. Of course any impeller with cracks should by replaced to improve the pumps efficiency and to prevent your having to locate the vanes in some other area of the motor later on.
Tom
That hose collapse can happen internally (inner layer of rubber separates from exterior) and give absolutely no visible indication that it's happening. New intake water hose is cheap insurance.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:51 PM
winterhawk winterhawk is offline
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So, I have all new hoses.

This morning I dropped by the boat for a few hours. I picked up a fitting from the hardware store that threads onto a garden hose, and has a hose barb on the other side.
I used that to connect the out side of the waterpump to the garden hose (note I added a ball valve behind the hose barb) and then disconnected the water injection to the stand pipe and placed that hose in an empty bucket.

Slowly opened the water flow and not much happend, but a few seconds later a bunch of black water came out spitting out. Then the flow increased and was more of a brownish. I flushed for a few minutes and clear water was coming out.

I tried reinstalling the old impellar. It gave marginal water output in the exhaust. Now the stand pipe ( like a waterlift) should hold a couple gallons and then the exhaust hose could hold 1-2 more so I let the engine run. After a minute or so I got some water out of the exhaust, but not a lot. More than a trickle but not the normal spurts I see on other boats.

1st thing in the morning I'm going to put in a new impellar and see what happens.

As it sits right now I'd guess I'm sucking a gallon a minute from the bucket.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:03 PM
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Don't necessarily compare 'other boats' to your motor unless they also have A4's. Diesel cooling varies widely so it isn't necessarily a good gauge to compare.

Keep going..we'll get there.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:24 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Thumbs up First check

winterhawk, first check under the fitting at the end of the manifold that goes to the exhaust by removing it. Many times when KRAP shakes loose or begins to restrick the flow you will find the area under that fitting quite plugged up. Clean it out with a tough piece of wire (stainless welding rod works very good) and blow what you break loose into your bucket not the exhaust. This may give you your waterflow back. If the impeller is good and you have hardly any flow and rising temps it may be time to flush.

Dave Neptune
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:41 PM
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If I am following correctly you have good flow with the garden hose as far as the wet/dry /standpipe connection. I would try using your pump with the same set up. Leave the wet/dry/standpipe connection loose and see if you have good flow. One of the issues with Robs was a clogged mixing/wet/dry connection. Dan S/V Marian Claire
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:22 PM
winterhawk winterhawk is offline
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Update:

Spent yesterday tracking down parts. Found the impeller and gasket at a local shop.

I installed the new impellar and seal, unhooked the hose that goes into the standpipe (exhaust) and let it sit in a empty bucket.

Started the engine and observed, the was a steady flow, more than a trickle but less than a stream.

Shut the engine down,

I unscrewed the elbow fitting where the water exits the exhaust manifold. Sure enough it was pretty murky in there. Dug around and broke up a bunch of stuff. removed what I could with a screwdriver, and a small dental pick.

Reinstalled elbow and then strated the engine again. Black junk came out of the hose. then turned to clear.

Repeated the prosess once more. Same result.

Next I unhooked the hose going from the thermostat housing into the manifold. Hooked up the garden hose and ran some pressure through it. More black crud came out, but not as much.

I hooked everything back up, minus the exhaust part.
I also unscrewed a small bolt on the manifold, aft of the carb, on the side and low on the manifold. I expected water to come out, but nothing. Probed around a bit but just poked a lot of crud. reinstalled bolt.

I ran the motor again and this time I had a stready stream of water leaving the exhaust end of the manifold!

Reconnected the hose to the standpipe and started the motor again. A minute later I had a pretty steady flow of water coming out of the exhaust. Reving the engine up brought more water and shot the water a bit farther from the transom.

So, all is well for now.

On the aft end of the manifold, there is a cover plate. Looks like the exhasut can mount either forward or aft (mine goes forward into the standpipe in the head). I doubt it, but if I were to remove that cover can I clean any more crud from the water passages?
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:44 PM
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Winterhawk-
Good job. Progress!
Since you've done the manifold, I suggest you keep working "backwards" all the way to the pump, with a "side-trip" visiting the water jackets.
If there was crud in the manifold, there'll be a lot more in the jackets AND you could have some blockage in some of the 90° fittings and hoses.
(Get those cooling passages clear and they'll take care of your temps)
As long as you've got the garden hose fitting, do the pressure flush too.
There are many posts (a lot of them current) on these procedures.
If you're unclear on what to do just ask and one of us will give you point-2-point instructions, but try searching a bit first...
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:48 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Red face lotsa krud

winterhawk, sounds as if you are on the right track. It also sounds to me that your ole' A-4 is due to be acid flushed. It's really no big deal with the access you have. I have similar access and have done it with a 5 gallon bucket with both the water intake and exit hoses in the bucket to close the loop and let it run for a few minutes, then flushed clear. That should last you at least 4~5 years.

Dave Neptune
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:00 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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end plate

Winterhawk - No point in removing that exhaust end plate, does not give further access to cooling passages.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:20 PM
thatch thatch is offline
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Sails pitch (pun)

Winterhawk,
I echo the comments that it sounds like a good time for an acid flush. In the event that you don't already have one, the process is describbed in Moyer's Service and Overhaul manual, section 2-5, hint, hint, hint....
Tom
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:03 PM
winterhawk winterhawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatch View Post
Winterhawk,
I echo the comments that it sounds like a good time for an acid flush. In the event that you don't already have one, the process is describbed in Moyer's Service and Overhaul manual, section 2-5, hint, hint, hint....
Tom
I saw a service manual of some sort in one of the boxes of stuff that came with the boat. I'll verify what I have and order one from Moyer if needed.

I''ll search for the full flushing details tonight.
This is something that I'll do soon, right now I just want to be able to launch the boat and move to the slip under my own power.

Thanks everyone.
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