Winterizing your Atomic 4

[tominny]

Did not bypass thermostat during winterization

I forgot to take the thermostat off when I ran the antifreeze through the engine. The winter has been pretty bad here in the Northeast. What, if any, damage can I expect in the spring?b

[Mo]

I forgot to take the thermostat off when I ran the antifreeze through the engine. The winter has been pretty bad here in the Northeast. What, if any, damage can I expect in the spring?b

Hi,
It would have been nice had it been removed. What type antifreeze did you use? It is possible that some antifreeze got through. If the engine was warmed up and the T stat opened then you should be fine as long as the quality of the antifreeze was good.

I would just cool my heels and wait until this weather breaks...at the bottom of this I will write one thing you can do OK. Hopefully next week or week after we can start on our boats in prep for launch. While still on the hard start your engine and hook up to freshwater. Run the engine for a bit and see how it runs.

A common thing that broke with frost was manifolds. There's a dry (hot) side and a wet side. If no antifreeze (or not enough antifreeze) made it in there the water would freeze and break the partition. This would result in water getting into the combustion chamber, corrosion sticking valves...generally no more than that but there "could" be more issues. I wouldn't expect it though OK.

What you can do now is. Rotate the engine over once a week. I would "consider" that "maybe" the manifold broke and water made it in toward the valves....rotating the engine may keep valves free and avoid a head removal. MMO through the spark plugs and try to lube the valves is a good idea as well. If you lubed the top end of the engine in the fall and turned it over a few times the valves may have gotten a good coat of oil and be fine as well...but for now, put oil in the valve areas through plug holes and turn engine over.

When I first got my boat in 2007 I inherited the frost / manifold broken problem. Have fixed a few more in 2008 but since I got people using auto antifreeze around here there are fewer and fewer issues. Been a few years since I had to deal with anything like that.

So, here's what I saw for frost damage...and what was required to fix it.
-manifold broken....replace if broken.
-if manifold broke and subsequent valves seized....remove head, remove and clean valves, lap valves, new head gaskets and put back together.
-and I tell ém all around here to loose that T stat...that's a personal choice.

That was it and it generally takes a couple to a few hours to do it depending on access.

[lhbradley]

I screwed up this year and forgot to pinch off the bypass hose. I have the Moyer mod that allows some water through the thermostat even when it is cold, so removing the T-stat isn't required. But I forgot to pinch.

The engine had been running for about 30 minutes, but not under much load - just from my slip to the haulout slip, the rest was idling. I ran about 2 gallons of RV antifreeze (with inhibitors) through the beast.

Up in Canada on the St. Lawrence River - it gets cold. Have I managed to get enough anti-freeze into the block, do you think? If not, since the engine has been winterized (and the carb is here at home with me), should I try to put more anti-freeze through it using a drill pump, or something similar?

[zellerj]

did you drain the block first?

The manual only calls for draining the block using the drain plugs. Because of sediment and other nasties that can plug the holes, most use antifreeze as a back up. IF you removed all of the water from the block before pumping antifreeze through it, I would not worry. If you did not, $10 bucks and a half hour of your time will help you sleep at night.

Jim

[edwardc]

With your winters, I wouldn't chance it.

In fact, I made the same mistake my first winter with the engine, and I went back and redid it with an external pump. And our winters here on the Chesapeake are much milder than yours!

[lhbradley]

Ed:

Precisely how did you do it? The boat is on the hard, and covered up. Working is going to be difficult except via the access via the cabin.

Can I just use my engine water intake T connection? Will the water pump pass water thru it in this case? Or should I try to disconnect the water hose where it connects to the T on the block and connect there?

The boat is two hours away, so I want to make sure I have everything I need in the way of tools, etc.

Any advice will be welcome.

[sastanley]

Since you 'forgot to pinch the bypass hose', I am assuming late model engine. I'd pop off the t-stat housing (if it is a late model head) and pour it in the head/block that way. There is a drain plug under the alternator that can help drain and allow the antifreeze to displace any residual water from the block as you pour. You can also pop the upper hose off the manifold and use a funnel to fill that too..it has a drain plug at the other end so you can be sure to get antifreeze displacing any residual water there as well.

If you are using a pump, I'd bypass the water pump and plumb my external pumping device directly into the side plate.

I am not as familiar with early model engines, so I don't have an educated suggestion for that, but a pump in the side plate would probably work there as well. Don't early model engins have a hard line between head & manifold? You could remove that piece, which should be at the highpoint of the engine similar to the t-stat housing in late model heads, and pour antifreeze into the head & manifold that way..your only extra expense is the two little flange gaskets for the crossover tube.

[edwardc]

Ed:

Precisely how did you do it? The boat is on the hard, and covered up. Working is going to be difficult except via the access via the cabin.

Here's a step-by-step of how to winterize without running the engine:

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=85426&postcount=13

Missing from this is that you should probably remove the impeller from the pump to make it easier to get flow through it.

[lhbradley]

Thanks, Ed.

Getting at the impeller will be hard to do given the present state of the boat, but it is doable.

Do you think a drill pump will be adequate for the task? I don't have an electric pump of any kind, so will have to buy something, and a drill pump is probably the cheapest.

Moyer says that my engine (it is one of his rebuilds, about 6 years old) has the mod to allow flow through the thermostat even when it is closed, so I should not have to remove the T-stat. I never have done so in the past, just use vice-grips to pinch off the bypass hose.

[edwardc]

Getting at the impeller will be hard to do given the present state of the boat, but it is doable...

If it's too hard, an alternative is to go in after the pump by disconnecting the outlet hose of the pump and hooking up your drill pump there, as Shawn suggests.

...Do you think a drill pump will be adequate for the task? I don't have an electric pump of any kind, so will have to buy something, and a drill pump is probably the cheapest.

It should be fine.

Moyer says that my engine (it is one of his rebuilds, about 6 years old) has the mod to allow flow through the thermostat even when it is closed, so I should not have to remove the T-stat. I never have done so in the past, just use vice-grips to pinch off the bypass hose.

As I recall, the mod was a small hole drilled in the thermostat plate. It may take a long time to push 1 1/2 gallons of antifreeze through that hole, but it should work fine (if slowly) as long as the bypass is pinched shut. When pinching the bypass, I like to use either a vise-grip or a C-clamp with a pair of flat craft sticks (aka popsicle sticks) between the clamp and the hose to protect the hose from damage.

[lhbradley]

OK. Thanks for all the suggestions.

When I have pinched off the bypass in previous years, there appeared to be adequate flow thru the exhaust. I always had the engine warmed up, so the combination of the little hole and the partially open T-stat should have let the antifreeze through the block at a decent rate.

When I get to the boat, I'll first remove the drain plug and see what comes out. Hopefully antifreeze! which would indicate that I did indeed get some into the block. But I will do the job anyhow.

[lhbradley]

Went to the boat yesterday. Removed drain plug. Water came out, then some antifreeze/water mix. Decided not to take a chance. Drained the block. Removed the impeller (need to put a new one in anyways), it was very hard to remove. Removed water exit hose from manifold. Connected drill pump to my water intake T fitting hose. CLAMPED OFF BYPASS HOSE!!!!!! Ran drill pump (I think these things are the pits, by the way). Eventually antifreeze started coming out the manifold. Removed block drain to make sure antifreeze was in block. Looked good. Pumped some more through the system.

Moral of the story: Do it right the FIRST time!

Question:

Given that removing the impeller and all that is a pain, could I not just connect a hose to the drain fitting, and pump antifreeze into the block that way? No need to remove impellers or clamp off bypass hoses. Thoughts?

[edwardc]

... Ran drill pump (I think these things are the pits, by the way)....

Good to know. I used a 1/10 HP portable transfer pump that I already had. A lot more expensive than a drill pump, but it moves a gallon of antifreeze through in about 15 seconds!

...Question:

Given that removing the impeller and all that is a pain, could I not just connect a hose to the drain fitting, and pump antifreeze into the block that way? No need to remove impellers or clamp off bypass hoses. Thoughts?

Interesting idea. Never considered it before, since my drain holes just have a plug in them and are basically inaccessable. Don't see why it wouldn't work, especially if you only use the one that is farthest from the thermostat.
Would still have to be sure to drain the pump housing.

[BunnyPlanet169]

....Would still have to be sure to drain the pump housing.

What keeps antifreeze from slowly draining out of the block via the pump housing? That's in part how I used to drain my block....

[hcrisp]

Anti-Freeze

Anyone used this stuff? From NAPA. Directions printed on the container are For Marine Use - "Do not dilute with water." Sounds like slush to me.
Howard