Getting lot's of smoke from the filler pipe.

[ChrisMitchell45]

I just changed out my manifold for a cleaned functioning one and everything pertaining to it is now perfect. However since I put everything back together I've noticed a lot more smoke than prior to repair coming from the filler pipe while in neutral and a fog bank while in gear. The engine is not overheating, in fact I have to put it in gear now to get it to 145 (another problem I'll post in the cooling part of the forum). While under load the smoke not only comes from the filler pipe but from somewhere around the accessory drive area as well. It is not exhaust it is oily smoke. Also the oil pressure seems high. It never drops to 25psi but stays around 40 when warmed up.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Chris

[Marian Claire]

What you describe, oily smoke from filler tube, sounds like blow-by to me. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[ChrisMitchell45]

Any idea why it gets significantly worse under load? Thanks.

[Dave Neptune]

Chris, under load the cylinder preassures are much higher so more is getting by the rings. You could just have one sticking if it happened all of a sudden. Have you had any odd noises while under load?

Dave Neptune

[ChrisMitchell45]

No odd noises but a sticking ring makes sense. I'll put some MMO in the cylinders tomorrow and see if that helps.
Would a blown head do the same thing? I've had the thermostat off and I know it's bolts are head bolts as well. Hope not!

Thanks again..

Chris

[jpian0923]

Did you replace the "hot section" of the exhaust as well? If so, make sure all connections are sealed well.

Neil might suggest that a pcv system is in order!

[ChrisMitchell45]

Originally Posted by jpian0923

Did you replace the "hot section" of the exhaust as well? If so, make sure all connections are sealed well.

Neil might suggest that a pcv system is in order!

I don't have any exhaust leaks at all. The smoke is coming from the oil filler pipe at idle and from the filler pipe and somewhere around the accessory drive under load.

Tomorrow I'll try to find the other source of smoke that's coming from the area around the accessory drive.

Chris

[Marian Claire]

These posts may help. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...hlight=blow-by. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...hlight=blow-by Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Dave Neptune]

Chris, tossing some MMO in the cylinders may help. I would also mix some in the fuel and get the mix to at least 150:1, remember to include what is in the tank or you can hook up a small aux tank temporarily. I'd run at least 4~5 gallons of fuel this way and then recheck.
Did your compression change after adjusting the valves?
If you recheck do so with dry cylinders first~no MMO~ then do a check with it. If the numbers don't change it could still be an oil ring on the bottom sticking, and running with some "top-oil" (the 150:1 or even a bit richer) should eventually free it up.
Another note is to double check the timing IE to much advance may make it feel a bit more "spunky" however the additional advance will create much more blowby.

Dave Neptune

[ChrisMitchell45]

Originally Posted by Dave Neptune

Chris, tossing some MMO in the cylinders may help. I would also mix some in the fuel and get the mix to at least 150:1, remember to include what is in the tank or you can hook up a small aux tank temporarily. I'd run at least 4~5 gallons of fuel this way and then recheck.
Did your compression change after adjusting the valves?
If you recheck do so with dry cylinders first~no MMO~ then do a check with it. If the numbers don't change it could still be an oil ring on the bottom sticking, and running with some "top-oil" (the 150:1 or even a bit richer) should eventually free it up.
Another note is to double check the timing IE to much advance may make it feel a bit more "spunky" however the additional advance will create much more blowby.

Dave Neptune

I haven't touched the valves or the timing only the manifold. The engine is still running fine it's just throwing a bunch of smoke but I will follow your suggestions tonight as well.

Thanks

Chris

[Dave Neptune]

Chris, I got you crosse with another thread in which he had dione a compression check. Just disregard that and try the fuel oil part if you wish.

Curiosity, did the heavy smoking just hap0pen or has it been building up?

The smoke can get out of the filler, dipstick hole, slash tube and the front of the engine by the non sealed crank "vent" at the front of the engine behind the flywheel. Note the flywheel can toss the smoke out all the way around the flywheel cover. I think anywhere else would be problimatic.

Dave Neptune

[ChrisMitchell45]

I didnt think about the dipstick tube! That's probably the other area where it is coming from. I'll check here in a few minutes.

[jpian0923]

Oil pressure at 40 psi is good. Worry if it goes below 10.

What torque values did you use on manifold bolts?
Did you seal manifold gasket with permatex #2?
Is breather tube attached?
Is flame arrestor clean?

[hanleyclifford]

Have you noticed any milkey coloring in the oil or any increase in it's level on the dipstick?

[ChrisMitchell45]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

Have you noticed any milkey coloring in the oil or any increase in it's level on the dipstick?

No water in the oil and the level has for the most part remained the same, maybe a bit lower.

[ChrisMitchell45]

OK, so last night I ran it under load for about an hour after putting some MMO in the cylinders. The smoke seems to have lessened somewhat especially while in neutral. However under load while not as bad it is still putting out smoke from the oil filler, the tube that goes to the flame trap and somewhere behind the starter ring. At lower RPM's it isn't that bad but it gets worse with higher RPM's.

I guess I'll just keep treating it with the MMO and hope it goes away because at this point I'm not losing any compression.

[hanleyclifford]

Another question. How many hours on the engine since the change out? It is possible that the new manifold was soaked/cleaned in something that left a residue and just needs to be burned out. For instance, I soak 'em in diesel before the air blast treatment, but they still stink for a few hours.

[ChrisMitchell45]

I have about 1 hour on it now. However the smoke is not coming out the exhaust behind the boat but rather inside the engine compartment and not around the manifold which was totally clean and dry when I put it on.

Is it possible that the oil pressure is too high??? It pretty much hangs out at 45Psi.

[hanleyclifford]

The official recommendation from MM is 40 psi at cruising rpm. At idle it could be as low as 10 psi and still be ok. Adjust accordingly; it's worth a shot.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by jpian0923

Neil might suggest that a pcv system is in order!

And pigs might start flying, too. Seriously, though, the pcv system is a good idea but will only mask the issue and delay a solution. Starting to sound like a ring problem to me...

[ndutton]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

. . . . .the pcv system is a good idea but will only mask the issue and delay a solution.

Thank you Hanley, that is exactly my position on the PCV system. The language I've used in the past is it's a stopgap measure.

[ChrisMitchell45]

So I went to the boat a few minutes ago with my buddies pressure gauge to check compression and I got 30Psi 30Psi 30Psi and 65Psi.........

Guess I'm getting some blow by.

Sucks!

Oh well I've got another Atomic 4 I'm going to go get tomorrow for free if the compression is good on it and then swap them out. Not sure if I'll do it right away or run on this engine till it dies and then change it though. The season basically starts next month here in Texas and other than low horsepower the engine runs smooth and cool now.


Anyway as always thanks for all the help gentlemen..

Chris

[Dave Neptune]

Chris, how exactly did you perform the compression test? Also did you do the test dry, ie no oil added to the cylinders? I'm questioning your test because if the numbers are actually that low the engine should really be struggling to run and then not very smooth.
To do the Comp-test you should have the choke open the throttle at full throttle, all plugs removed and fully charged battery(s). First test dry and another with a bit of oil sprayed into the cylinder as you test each one.

Dave Neptune