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  #1   IP: 108.34.181.155
Old 03-30-2018, 09:42 AM
tom61 tom61 is offline
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no temperature sender

Hello all:

I'm new to the A4, and to this forum. I have an old A4, in a 1960 Pearson Triton. It seems to run fine, but it makes me nervous that there is no temperature gauge, and as far as I can tell, no sensor at all. I was thinking of installing one, but there's no obvious place that I can find where it should go. So...

1. Is this necessary, or should I just relax and find a manual way to check the temperature from time to time? Browsing here, I see people using laser thermometers and even an oven thermometer laid on top of the head. Can that be adequate if all I really want to do is to make sure that I've recommissioned it properly after the winter? What temps should I expect if I'm measuring it that way?

2. If I do want to install one, which of the available sending units do I use and where does it go? I couldn't find a picture or diagram that laid it out, maybe someone can point me to one? There's a water pipe that sort of loops over the front of the engine head, is there an alternate version of this with a sending unit incorporated?

Many thanks in advance,

-Tom
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:50 PM
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CajunSpike CajunSpike is offline
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Keeping in mind there are 'old' and 'new' versions of the A4, the circle is where the coolant temp sensor is located on my 'new' version A4.
That's connected to the panel temp gauge that came with the boat.
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  #3   IP: 108.34.181.155
Old 03-30-2018, 10:56 PM
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Thank you. I should have posted a picture at first. This is what mine looks like. I don't see that hole. (Though I see a need for some paint.)
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:57 AM
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A temp gauge sender can be easily installed at the other end of the manifold. I believe there is usually a Dole type thermostat located there on the early model engine. Failing that, placing a Tee in the cooling water exit at the end of the manifold provides a convenient port for a sender.
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Last edited by ndutton; 03-31-2018 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Added picture
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  #5   IP: 108.34.181.155
Old 03-31-2018, 07:10 AM
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Thank you, that looks doable. I see you also use an oven thermometer, lying there between spark plug cables. Does your experience tell you that you get very different readings from the two?

Also, there is a second tee there, with a dead end to its right, pointing toward the camera. What is that for?

Thank you!
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:22 AM
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Check out this post from 2010 . The second drawing explains the early model cooling system including the Dole thermostat (the second Tee you asked about).
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:54 AM
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Great. That diagram is exactly what I needed.

Do you have any tips about the oven thermometer? After all, as far as I can tell, the engine has been running for over 50 years without a temperature sensor. I wonder if I'm just being a worrywart.
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:10 AM
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No experience with an oven thermometer, never even heard of it. Sounds goofy to me but I'm a do it once - do it right guy.

edit:
I'll add that in my opinion there is a design flaw in the early model Dole thermostat system. Some members prefer it but I don't. During warm up the water flow is recirculated back to the water pump but with a reduction, perhaps a significant reduction, to the exhaust. This is not healthy for the downstream exhaust hose and if you have a waterlift exhaust system, particularly the popular Vetus blow molded product, it can destroy the waterlift in a very short time.
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Last edited by ndutton; 03-31-2018 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:52 AM
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My mistake. There is a thermometer lying there in the picture you posted and I thought that was your engine. Thank you for the diagrams and advice.

And I agree about the recirculation. I'm not really sure I understand the value of recirculating raw water coolant. Seems to me all it will do is make the engine warm up faster. I suppose that's a good thing, but not if you need the water for something else, as you say.
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Old 03-31-2018, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom61 View Post
My mistake. There is a thermometer lying there in the picture you posted and I thought that was your engine
Good eye, I never noticed it. FYI, there are quite a few of us who run with no thermostat just fine. These engines might not run up to their optimum but nevertheless deliver years of reliable operation*. It seems to me you can solve your original question of fitting a temperature sender/gauge easily with the aforementioned Tee at the manifold water outlet.

*I'm one who has run for years without a thermostat but stay tuned. Big cooling system post coming in about a month.
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Old 03-31-2018, 11:32 AM
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If I were you I would listen for the sound of water exiting the exhaust through hull, and be cognizant of changes. You should be able to tell an acute issue by a sudden change of water flow.

Shoot your engine with an Infrared temp gun (about $20 on line) every so often, at various points on the head and cross-over pipe, and record the results so that you can detect trends.

If the temp is too high at the cross over pipe - 200 F or so, I would look for blockages. I ran my engine at 210 F for 12 years before I took off my side plate behind the alternator and found that the area around the cylinder outside walls were full of crap. I dug this junk out and now she runs around 140 F.

Other places to look for blockages is a kinked or collapsed water hose, the coolant water exit elbow on the manifold, and the elbow going into the side plate that may have ghosts of impeller's past lurking around.

Your engine has been running over 50 years without a temp gauge, so the engine does not need it. What you want is peace of mind that all is ok.
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Old 03-31-2018, 07:01 PM
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Dole

In my opinion, the only thing really wrong with the Dole thermostat is that they are quite old now and it is just about impossible to acquire a new thermostat itself. It is true that you have to pay attention to the bypass flow that provides cooling water to the exhaust system all the time but if the incoming water is kept clean, there normally is not a problem. The recirculation feature does indeed allow the engine to warm up more quickly but it’s greatest benefit is that during normal operation, the incoming cooling water is considerably warmer than it would be otherwise. Typically if you have raw water temperatures in the 60° range, the mixed raw and recirculation water coming into the block would be in the order of 110°, thus leading to more even temperatures within the engine. And that is very good thing.

If your Dole thermostat functions currently, I would not throw it out just yet.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigo View Post
In my opinion, the only thing really wrong with the Dole thermostat is that they are quite old now and it is just about impossible to acquire a new thermostat itself.
They've been available from MMI for as long as I can remember:

Early model thermostat - https://moyermarine.com/product/ther...-csth_05_60-3/
Early model thermostat housing - https://moyermarine.com/product/ther...e-csth_04_173/

Even Discount Marine carries them albeit for $20 more than MMI - http://discountmarinesource.com/stor...EaAgeEEALw_wcB
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Last edited by ndutton; 04-01-2018 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 04-01-2018, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ndutton
They've been available from MMI for as long as I can remember:

Early model thermostat - https://moyermarine.com/product/ther...-csth_05_60-3/
Early model thermostat housing - https://moyermarine.com/product/ther...e-csth_04_173/
Thanks for the enlightenment Neil. It is great to know that our host has them available albeit a little pricey.

Quote:
*I'm one who has run for years without a thermostat but stay tuned. Big cooling system post coming in about a month.
As one of the biggest proponents of the "No Thermostat" concept, you have certainly peaked my interest in your new findings. Any hints?
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:00 PM
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No, no hints yet and when I publish it will make sense why, promise. Right now I'm in the midst of upgrading and taking before and after temp measurements at nine key points in the cooling system, the first of which will happen in about an hour. Family demands are hindering available time tho . . .

Well, here's one hint: my electric FWC system has worked well for many years with no thermostat and the bypass fully closed. Looking at it another way though is I'm at full cooling capacity with my system and barely holding 180°, + 10°/- 0° or in other words, hanging on the ragged edge with no margin of safety. Not cool (pun intended). Frankly I'm growing weary of having my eye glued to the temp gauge. Mind you, I've not had an issue but this is supposed to be relaxing and I have to admit it ain't.

Quote:
Shoot your engine with an Infrared temp gun (about $20 on line) every so often, at various points on the head and cross-over pipe, and record the results so that you can detect trends.
A word of caution here. Temps vary quite a bit at different parts of the engine while it's running normally. The baseline temps I just measured (mentioned above) included some in the 270° range while the cockpit gauge read 180° +/- rock solid (FWC).
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Last edited by ndutton; 04-01-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:40 PM
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gauge

a reminder that Moyer also sells this direct-read temp gauge that might be simplest way to check you are in proper temp range -- assuming you can install port as Neil suggests

https://moyermarine.com/product/dire...ge-gaug_07_97/
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