#76
IP: 137.200.32.6
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It comes in from someplace. Did you do the hose test?
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#77
IP: 173.67.45.252
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Not yet Joe. Will in the next few days.
Yes...lol...that's all we "do" know, is that, "it's coming from somewhere..." Not poking fun at you, poking fun at the whole issue. I'll figure it out sooner or later with the help from all of you knowledgable guys. More news as soon as I can get down there and do the hose test. I know I still need to do Joe's hose test and the "exhaust off" test. But, again to my logic, assuming that the water jacket is completely sound, that eliminates the block from the issue and means it has to be coming from the exhaust circuit. Does this make sense as a thought exercise?
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#78
IP: 71.38.87.228
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Quote:
Well, the good news is that you don't have the BAD news of water jack leaking.
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-Jerry 'Lone Ranger' 1978 RANGER 30 |
#79
IP: 137.200.32.6
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Also nothing stopping you from taking the pump off the engine, putting a hose on one end, plugging the other outlet with your thumb, and seeing if and how bad it leaks.
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#80
IP: 173.67.45.252
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I have the pump off as I ordered seals and a new shaft from Moyer.
I can certainly do that but after looking at the design, my logic now tells me that no matter how badly a pump leaks, it can't inject huge amounts of water into the engine. I think this is sound thinking. I don't want to waste time on things that don't really matter. I'll have a rebuilt pump, but I don't think the pump can even remotely be the issue. I have a 'lot' of water coming in. My oil looks like milk.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#81
IP: 137.200.32.6
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I have learned the hard way to check EVERYTHING
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#82
IP: 173.67.45.252
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Believe me Joe, I very much appreciate your wisdom.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#83
IP: 71.38.87.228
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Quote:
I just re-read the thread (again). Just trying to see if we've missed something. Testing the pump and exhaust are still on the list for sure. The above comment caught my attention. Have you put the rebuilt exhaust back on the manifold yet? Also, when you rebuilt it... • Did you examine and clean the exhaust water injection section? (red hose in your pic) If so, how'd it look? • Did you replace the hose from the manifold to the exhaust?
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-Jerry 'Lone Ranger' 1978 RANGER 30 |
#84
IP: 47.16.178.29
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I think I have same problem as you. I've summarized my issues and findings in this post:
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...585#post116585 Thought it may be helpful for you. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Wisakedjack For This Useful Post: | ||
nyvoyager (05-05-2019) |
#85
IP: 50.242.183.42
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Yes, I have rebuilt it and it looked great and clean. Thanks for the 2nd look. Will do the exhaust off test tomorrow.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#86
IP: 50.242.183.42
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Quote:
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#87
IP: 50.242.183.42
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Wisakedjack and I are solving the same issue. I read about some Manifold testing on his thread. I'm going to test that tomorrow. Also changed the Oberdorfer seals today, even as I now am sure that a water pump leak cannot inject much water into the block. Let me say that those old seals were exceedingly difficult to remove. Took me two hours.
Lots of tests tomorrow and I'll report back.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#88
IP: 47.16.178.29
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RobH2 I am getting convinced that my water in oil issue is caused by syphoning. I think this is because this year I placed water bucket in the cockpit above the engine anti syphone valve. I was looking at the picture of your exhaust and looks similar to one I have myself (water muffler and elbow in exhaust pipe). I am wondering how the black hose from the manifold outlet is connected to the exhaust pipe on your boat? I don't see a vent loop in your picture, but may be its hidden behind water lift muffler. I am curious to find out what kind of anti syphone valve you have.
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#89
IP: 173.67.45.252
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Quote:
Something has just malfunctioned. I hope I find out what tomorrow. I'll get some photos for us to compare an analyze.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#90
IP: 138.207.175.58
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Quote:
Bill |
The Following User Says Thank You to Administrator For This Useful Post: | ||
nyvoyager (05-05-2019) |
#91
IP: 173.67.45.252
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We are thinking alike now. That's the first thing I was going to check today since we started pointing fingers at that loop. It would be crazy if my whole issue was caused by that little plastic part.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#92
IP: 70.185.132.167
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Quote:
TRUE GRIT |
#93
IP: 24.152.132.140
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You - and anyone else for that matter - might consider a vented loop rather than an antisiphon valve. No moving parts, nothing to malfunction, nothing to maintain, nothing to check assuming it is properly installed in the first place.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#94
IP: 50.242.183.42
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No water moving out of the bare manifold. Anti siphon was ok. Going to do the three oil changes. Should I run the engine between changes?
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#95
IP: 173.67.45.252
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ISSUE SOLVED!!
However, I don’t know how exactly. I know that’s an add thing to say. To wrap up, here’s what I know: 1. I flushed the antifreeze out of my engine, checked the oil and ran it for about 15-minutes. 2. Engine started perfectly as it always does. Checked the oil, it was black, and I made a note to change it the following week. 3. While running engine for that initial 15-minutes I noticed a lot of steam coming off of my exhaust pipe just above the water injection point. 4. I changed the oil a week later, ran engine for about 5-minutes and checked the level. It was full of water. Seemingly, the act of just changing my oil caused a cascade of problems that led to massive amounts of water in the crankcase. What I did: 1. Began posting on forum 2. Pulled exhaust pipe and found that it had a leak at one joint. Rebuilt exhaust pipe. 3. Assumed that the pipe leak reduced push of water out of boat and allowed for back flow into manifold and into engine. 4. Changed oil 3 times and still had a tremendous amount of water in the oil. Since the exhaust pipe was new and tight, and the injection fitting was sound and clear, I assumed the water was coming from elsewhere. 5. Pulled the water pump and after examining it I determined that there is no way it could contribute any significant amount of water into the block. Rebuilt its seals anyway, so at least I know it’s in great shape. 6. Pressure tested the water jacket. It held pressure for two days. Therefore, not internal cracks. 7. Pressure tested Manifold. It held 10lbs pressure for 30-minutes until I released the pressure. 8. Pulled the exhaust pipe off of the manifold, used garden hose to run water through the engine and ran it for 10-minutes. It was loud but no water came out of the manifold. 9. Pulled the plastic anti-siphon valve off of anti-siphon loop and blew through it from the screen end. I blew water through it from the screen end. I tested it from the thread end, and I could not blow into it but could suck air back. So, it was functioning. What I don’t know: Instead of a list I just have to say, I don’t know what solved the issue. Aside from the leak in the deteriorated exhaust pipe, I found no problems, issues or malfunctions. In all, I ran (wasted sort of) 11 gallons of oil through the engine as I continued to diagnose, test, change oil and start over. I did a sea trial today and after one hour on the water I checked the oil and it is perfectly clear and shows no signs of any water. I want to thank all of you very knowledgeable guys for the guidance and assistance. I wish I could point to something that was the culprit. As odd as it seems, I’m leaning to the plastic anti-siphon valve that I blew out. Every other thing I did resulted in watery oil after making the repair. The last thing I did today before putting it all back together was blow out that plastic valve. Could it have been clogged or blocked before I blew on it, maybe. Did if detect in any way that it was in fact clogged, no. But having done everything else and still getting water in the oil, it’s the only thing I can point to. I wish I had blown it out first. So, my advice, even though it might be wrong and or misguided is, if you get water in your oil, first blow out the anti-siphon valve or replace it. But we will never know if that’s sound advice. I have no idea.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RobH2 For This Useful Post: | ||
Administrator (05-04-2019), thatch (05-04-2019) |
#96
IP: 47.16.178.29
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RobH2 I am very happy to hear that you solved your issue as well. I would not be surprised that syphone valve could cause it. Especially given that it was at play in my case as well. May be the valve was stuck and your blowing through it fixed it. Hopefully it wont happen again, but as least you will be prepared. Happy sailing season!
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#97
IP: 137.103.82.194
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This is tempting me to switch from a siphon valve to a vent line.
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#98
IP: 173.67.45.252
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Joe, where can I see how a 'vent line' is configured? I might be inclined to do that also.
It was thinking that if I kept the valve, that I might plumb two of them in and at least if one clogged, the other might still serve the purpose. Or, I could just blow it out one a month or so. I'd rather have something that requires no maintenance so I don't forget to do it. So, maybe a 'vent line' would be better. I just don't know how to build that.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
#99
IP: 137.200.32.6
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Like so:
You adjust the valve for a little water flow from the vent line, you want about 90% of the water going through the exhaust. This is kind of like the pee hose on an outboard except the main reason the outboard has one is so you know it is pumping water. |
#100
IP: 173.67.45.252
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Interesting. Thanks.
__________________
Rob-- "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little." 1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4 https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7 |
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crank case, mix, oil, water |
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