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  #76   IP: 137.200.32.6
Old 05-01-2019, 01:59 PM
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It comes in from someplace. Did you do the hose test?
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:05 PM
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Not yet Joe. Will in the next few days.

Yes...lol...that's all we "do" know, is that, "it's coming from somewhere..."

Not poking fun at you, poking fun at the whole issue. I'll figure it out sooner or later with the help from all of you knowledgable guys.

More news as soon as I can get down there and do the hose test.

I know I still need to do Joe's hose test and the "exhaust off" test.

But, again to my logic, assuming that the water jacket is completely sound, that eliminates the block from the issue and means it has to be coming from the exhaust circuit. Does this make sense as a thought exercise?
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH2 View Post
Good thought Jerry but you maybe missed a post. I bought a new bike pump and ran the test again. I pumped it to 20lbs and after 1.5 hours it lost maybe 1-2 lbs. The pump was at the water output hose and I had a release valve at the water ejection hose at the back of the manifold.

So, I know the pressure made it all the way to the manifold.
Yeah, I missed that but see the post now.
Well, the good news is that you don't have the BAD news of water jack leaking.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:26 PM
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Also nothing stopping you from taking the pump off the engine, putting a hose on one end, plugging the other outlet with your thumb, and seeing if and how bad it leaks.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:30 PM
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I have the pump off as I ordered seals and a new shaft from Moyer.

I can certainly do that but after looking at the design, my logic now tells me that no matter how badly a pump leaks, it can't inject huge amounts of water into the engine.

I think this is sound thinking. I don't want to waste time on things that don't really matter. I'll have a rebuilt pump, but I don't think the pump can even remotely be the issue. I have a 'lot' of water coming in. My oil looks like milk.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:47 PM
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I have learned the hard way to check EVERYTHING
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:56 PM
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Believe me Joe, I very much appreciate your wisdom.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH2 View Post
...This might just be a coincidental leak and pipe failure and have nothing to do with the water incursion. I ran my finger around inside the manifold where the pipe connects and there was water. It was wet and it wasn't oil.
Rob-
I just re-read the thread (again). Just trying to see if we've missed something.
Testing the pump and exhaust are still on the list for sure.

The above comment caught my attention.

Have you put the rebuilt exhaust back on the manifold yet?
Also, when you rebuilt it...
• Did you examine and clean the exhaust water injection section? (red hose in your pic)
If so, how'd it look?
• Did you replace the hose from the manifold to the exhaust?
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:10 PM
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I think I have same problem as you. I've summarized my issues and findings in this post:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...585#post116585

Thought it may be helpful for you.
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Rob-
I just re-read the thread (again). Just trying to see if we've missed something.
Testing the pump and exhaust are still on the list for sure.

The above comment caught my attention.....hose from the manifold to the exhaust?
Yes, I have rebuilt it and it looked great and clean. Thanks for the 2nd look. Will do the exhaust off test tomorrow.
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisakedjack View Post
I think I have same problem as you. I've summarized my issues and findings in this post:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...585#post116585

Thought it may be helpful for you.
Great, going there now.
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:54 PM
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Wisakedjack and I are solving the same issue. I read about some Manifold testing on his thread. I'm going to test that tomorrow. Also changed the Oberdorfer seals today, even as I now am sure that a water pump leak cannot inject much water into the block. Let me say that those old seals were exceedingly difficult to remove. Took me two hours.

Lots of tests tomorrow and I'll report back.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:50 PM
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RobH2 I am getting convinced that my water in oil issue is caused by syphoning. I think this is because this year I placed water bucket in the cockpit above the engine anti syphone valve. I was looking at the picture of your exhaust and looks similar to one I have myself (water muffler and elbow in exhaust pipe). I am wondering how the black hose from the manifold outlet is connected to the exhaust pipe on your boat? I don't see a vent loop in your picture, but may be its hidden behind water lift muffler. I am curious to find out what kind of anti syphone valve you have.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisakedjack View Post
RobH2 I am getting convinced that my water in oil issue is caused by syphoning. I think this is because this year I placed water bucket in the cockpit .... pipe on your boat? I don't see a vent loop in your picture, but may be its hidden behind water lift muffler. I am curious to find out what kind of anti syphone valve you have.
I'll be down there all day tomorrow trying to solve it. My engine has run perfectly for 9-years with the configuration I have. I don't think my antisiphon setup is wrong.

Something has just malfunctioned. I hope I find out what tomorrow. I'll get some photos for us to compare an analyze.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
I don't think my antisiphon setup is wrong.
Any chance of a clogged antisiphon valve, rendering it non-functional?

Bill
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  #91   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 05-03-2019, 09:21 AM
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We are thinking alike now. That's the first thing I was going to check today since we started pointing fingers at that loop. It would be crazy if my whole issue was caused by that little plastic part.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH2 View Post
We are thinking alike now. That's the first thing I was going to check today since we started pointing fingers at that loop. It would be crazy if my whole issue was caused by that little plastic part.
Checking the anti siphon valve should be a routine maintenance item. Personally I never trust a plastic anything.

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Old 05-03-2019, 01:35 PM
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You - and anyone else for that matter - might consider a vented loop rather than an antisiphon valve. No moving parts, nothing to malfunction, nothing to maintain, nothing to check assuming it is properly installed in the first place.
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Old 05-03-2019, 03:55 PM
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No water moving out of the bare manifold. Anti siphon was ok. Going to do the three oil changes. Should I run the engine between changes?
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:36 PM
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ISSUE SOLVED!!

However, I don’t know how exactly. I know that’s an add thing to say.

To wrap up, here’s what I know:
1. I flushed the antifreeze out of my engine, checked the oil and ran it for about 15-minutes.
2. Engine started perfectly as it always does. Checked the oil, it was black, and I made a note to change it the following week.
3. While running engine for that initial 15-minutes I noticed a lot of steam coming off of my exhaust pipe just above the water injection point.
4. I changed the oil a week later, ran engine for about 5-minutes and checked the level. It was full of water. Seemingly, the act of just changing my oil caused a cascade of problems that led to massive amounts of water in the crankcase.

What I did:
1. Began posting on forum
2. Pulled exhaust pipe and found that it had a leak at one joint. Rebuilt exhaust pipe.
3. Assumed that the pipe leak reduced push of water out of boat and allowed for back flow into manifold and into engine.
4. Changed oil 3 times and still had a tremendous amount of water in the oil. Since the exhaust pipe was new and tight, and the injection fitting was sound and clear, I assumed the water was coming from elsewhere.
5. Pulled the water pump and after examining it I determined that there is no way it could contribute any significant amount of water into the block. Rebuilt its seals anyway, so at least I know it’s in great shape.
6. Pressure tested the water jacket. It held pressure for two days. Therefore, not internal cracks.
7. Pressure tested Manifold. It held 10lbs pressure for 30-minutes until I released the pressure.
8. Pulled the exhaust pipe off of the manifold, used garden hose to run water through the engine and ran it for 10-minutes. It was loud but no water came out of the manifold.
9. Pulled the plastic anti-siphon valve off of anti-siphon loop and blew through it from the screen end. I blew water through it from the screen end. I tested it from the thread end, and I could not blow into it but could suck air back. So, it was functioning.

What I don’t know:
Instead of a list I just have to say, I don’t know what solved the issue. Aside from the leak in the deteriorated exhaust pipe, I found no problems, issues or malfunctions. In all, I ran (wasted sort of) 11 gallons of oil through the engine as I continued to diagnose, test, change oil and start over.

I did a sea trial today and after one hour on the water I checked the oil and it is perfectly clear and shows no signs of any water.

I want to thank all of you very knowledgeable guys for the guidance and assistance. I wish I could point to something that was the culprit. As odd as it seems, I’m leaning to the plastic anti-siphon valve that I blew out. Every other thing I did resulted in watery oil after making the repair.

The last thing I did today before putting it all back together was blow out that plastic valve. Could it have been clogged or blocked before I blew on it, maybe. Did if detect in any way that it was in fact clogged, no. But having done everything else and still getting water in the oil, it’s the only thing I can point to. I wish I had blown it out first.

So, my advice, even though it might be wrong and or misguided is, if you get water in your oil, first blow out the anti-siphon valve or replace it. But we will never know if that’s sound advice. I have no idea.
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  #96   IP: 47.16.178.29
Old 05-03-2019, 10:48 PM
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RobH2 I am very happy to hear that you solved your issue as well. I would not be surprised that syphone valve could cause it. Especially given that it was at play in my case as well. May be the valve was stuck and your blowing through it fixed it. Hopefully it wont happen again, but as least you will be prepared. Happy sailing season!
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:58 AM
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This is tempting me to switch from a siphon valve to a vent line.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:46 PM
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Joe, where can I see how a 'vent line' is configured? I might be inclined to do that also.

It was thinking that if I kept the valve, that I might plumb two of them in and at least if one clogged, the other might still serve the purpose. Or, I could just blow it out one a month or so. I'd rather have something that requires no maintenance so I don't forget to do it. So, maybe a 'vent line' would be better. I just don't know how to build that.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:45 AM
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Like so:
You adjust the valve for a little water flow from the vent line, you want about 90% of the water going through the exhaust. This is kind of like the pee hose on an outboard except the main reason the outboard has one is so you know it is pumping water.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:51 AM
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Interesting. Thanks.
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