No Start

[RUSSELL]

I continue my (very) sporadic work on my 1978 Catalina 30. I hope to make more progress as I am down to one child left at home. My older son has also expressed some interest in helping.

To make a long story short, I just completed a complete rewire and new control panel. I have a Moyer new block engine that I purchased quite a few years ago. It has not really done anything in the interim as I have not really done anything. I have installed FWC (the Indigo kit with electric circulating pump).

Went to start today and got no firing. I pulled a plug and set it the head: I could observe sparking when cranking.

I put my nose in the spark plug hole and could not smell gas. I pulled the fuel line off the carb and put in a coffee can - no fuel. I bypassed the OPSS and fuel shot into the coffee can. I put the fuel line back on the carb with OPSS bypassed.

No firing when cranking. I pulled a plug and did my nose in the hole smell again - could smell no gas.

SO:

My concern was that I messed up my wiring - but all seems to work well, and see spark when I sit a plug on the head and crank.

I believe I have fuel to the carb. I pulled the throttle all over, back and forth, choke closed - can smell no gas in the cylinder when I pull a plug.

This makes me think carb. I have never touched the carb: it is as it came from Moyer. It has basically sat for years. I assume something is stuck. My next reading will be the Moyer manual on the carb.

In the interim, does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by RUSSELL

This makes me think carb. I have never touched the carb: it is as it came from Moyer. It has basically sat for years. I assume something is stuck. My next reading will be the Moyer manual on the carb.
In the interim, does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks!

A fuel pressure gauge would lock this problem in pronto; no if, ands, or buts.
Do you get the engine to start with starting fluid? Are the spark plug wires in the correct firing order? remember to keep the raw water valve closed until you get the engine to start.
If after you get fuel and spark to the cylinders, and the engine doesn't start it will be time for a compression check. There may be a stuck valve. Also the timing needs to be correct and the choke needs to close completely.

TRUE GRIT

[RUSSELL]

Thanks, John.

Have never used starter fluid. I'll start looking into.

[roadnsky]

When you bypassed the OPSS, can you hear the fuel pump clicking when you give it power?

[ndutton]

Check carburetor bowl for fuel, perform compression test.

[RUSSELL]

Jerry,

I had fuel shoot into my coffee can when I bypassed the OPSS. I can hear the fuel pump click and feel the fuel line (fuel line is completely hose) "stiffen" when power is supplied.

Neil, I did not do a compression test, but felt with my thumb. I was making the assumption that compression OK due to being a Moyer engine. I need to spend more time in manual to see how to do bowl check.

The only thing I can think to add is that I had all four plugs out, giving each cylinder a squirt of MMO and then manually spun the engine for a while. I replaced spark plugs. The lack of gas smell in a cylinder makes me think no gas through carb. There is no indication of any kind of starting at all when cranking.

[Marty Levenson]

I had similar symptoms a couple years ago. Turned out to be an air leak around the carb. Its like not having the choke closed.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by RUSSELL

. The lack of gas smell in a cylinder makes me think no gas through carb. There is no indication of any kind of starting at all when cranking.

Does fuel pool in the throat of the carburetor after a period of no start cranking? It should. Up draft carburetors tend to do that. IMO you have adequate evidence that a carburetor over haul is needed. As Marty posted there may be an air leak somewhere. Remember the fuel pump does not pump does not pump fuel into the carburetor rather it supplies fuel to the carburetor and then the carburetor meters it, mixes it with air, and so on according to the needs of the engine. At the moment it appears that fuel is being supplied to the carburetor but the carburetor is doing nothing with it. Makes me think the inlet needle valve is stuck - but who knows? Did you try starting fluid yet?

TRUE GRIT

[RUSSELL]

Here is an update.

Spent time carefully reading the Moyer manual section on fuel system and trouble shooting.

I pulled all the plugs and did a "functional" compression test as described in the Moyer manual: no way I could hold my thumb down on the hole as I turned the engine over.

Replaced plugs and cranked again working the throttle with choke closed. Pulled all four plugs and stuck my nose in the plug holes - no gas smell.

Next Steps:

I assumed I would remove the flame arrestor and see if any gas in throat of carb, correct?

How would I check to see if the carburetor bowl has fuel in it?

I have never used starting fluid on anything, and am a little leery of spraying combustible stuff around. Do you spray a little into each cylinder or into the flame arrestor?

Is there any way to tell whether the float valve is stuck closed (I think that means no fuel in the carburetor bowl) or the main jet clogged other than taking the carburetor off and rebuilding?

I recall seeing posts and discussions to the effect that rebuilding the carburetor should be an annual maintenance item. Are the internal parts prone to corroding and sticking of not used?

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by RUSSELL

I have never used starting fluid on anything, and am a little leery of spraying combustible stuff around. Do you spray a little into each cylinder or into the flame arrestor?
?

Backflame arrestor.
There should be a straw that came with the starting fluid. If there isn't one look at the nozzle; there maybe an indent for one. If there is an indent you can use a straw from another spray can.

TRUE GRIT