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  #1   IP: 64.183.169.46
Old 05-07-2018, 05:22 PM
chrisoelder chrisoelder is offline
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Smile '78 Ericson27 Atomic 4 Universal Overheating

I bought my boat 2.5 weeks ago and it was running great the first weekend. I took her out last Saturday (5/5), she warmed up for about 15-20 mins. While warming up I had it in neutral and little to no throttle, the exhaust looked normal and the raw water flow was going not a lot but more than drops. After pulling out of the slip and motoring down the channel I noted some smoke coming from the engine compartment. I removed the cover and turned off the engine. The exhaust raw water flow was very little at this point. After sailing around the marina for about 30-45 mins I restarted the engine. Let her warm up for a few minutes, then threw her into gear to get us out of the channel, raw water flow seemed normal to what I was used to with the boat. While out in the Santa Monica Bay I used the engine for about 15 mins and again she was running fine with normal raw water flow. When coming back into the marina we decided to do a little harbor cruise. We were motor sailing and the engine started to overheat again. The engine was in neutral for the most part during the harbor cruise and the water flow became very little.

After getting back into the slip I concluded it was most likely the impeller was old and not creating enough suction at the lower RPMs to cool the engine. Sunday (5/6) I took the impeller out and went to West Marine. I had their expert take a look at the impeller and he believes that isn't the issue. The impeller is in good shape, a lot of movement with the arms and not a lot of corrosion. He suggested I take a look at raw water filters, thermostat, the exhaust line, and any possible clogs or blockages. After returning to the boat I looked for a raw water filter but couldn't find one in the line. So I took the housing off the thermostat and there was nothing there, no thermostat, nothing. I took some photos and videos, please use these links to view them.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t7c...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m7a...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cM...g_uXcBwNb52_R_
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eRP...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yw...HiJc8x5AfdGQ0n

I am assuming this is not normal and after doing some research I am noticing that I should have a valve on the cooling line (which I don't, at least between the thermostat and the nameplate - see the images and video above). Could this be the issue of my A4 Universal overheating while idling for a while?

I am looking for any and all suggestions to what is causing this issue. Also is there a way I could "flush out" the system to see if there is a blockage somewhere down the line?

Thanks!
Chris

Location: Marina Del Rey, CA
Boat: Meru - 1978 Ericson 27
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  #2   IP: 70.186.109.11
Old 05-07-2018, 09:54 PM
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CajunSpike CajunSpike is offline
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I just recently brought an A4 back from the dead. One of the issues I had when it got running was overheating within a few minutes of starting.

Tested the water pressure coming out of the water pump.
good.

tested the water coming out of the thermostat cover.
good.

tested the water going into the exhaust manifold.
good.

tested the water coming OUT of the exhaust manifold.
very little and erratic flow.

Removed the outlet water line from the exhaust manifold.
Stuck a screwdriver in the manifold water outlet and swished it around.
Big clod of black goo came out.
Tested water flow out of manifold outlet.
Water gushed out.

Put it back together, has barely gotten warm since then.

Can be simple.
Start at the pump, work your way along the water flow, till you find something that doesn't flow.


Its also important to know whether you have a fresh water cooling system or a seawater cooling system.
Seawater pumps water thru the motor, then out the boat.
Freshwater goes thru a water cooled radiator.

What kind do you think have?

You said there was nothing under the thermostat cover.
That means there is nothing in the motor to slow down the water flow.
but for heat to happen, the water flow has to be blocked someway.
In my case, blockage of the outlet exhaust manifold was the cause.

The valve you speak of is just a method to get water to either go into the motor for full cooling or have some of the water bypass
the motor, so it warms up.
Valve closed = no bypass water, all runs thru the motor. Lots of cooling.
Valve open=some water does not cool the motor and just leaves. More warm.

This is the bypass valve on my engine.
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1972 Ericson 27
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Atomic 4

Last edited by CajunSpike; 05-07-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:23 PM
zellerj zellerj is offline
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The intermittent over heat is probably caused by something floating in the cooling passages that gets in a position to block water flow. Turn off the engine and it floats out of the way and all is as it should be until you start up the engine again.

Cajun is right with the diagnoses.

I would bet on the exit to the exhaust manifold because the exhaust manifold is large enough that it can have large rust flakes that can swim around and periodically block the exist.

Another place to look is at the T going into the side plate directly after the pump. Bits of impellers of Christmas's past can get caught there.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:30 PM
chrisoelder chrisoelder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zellerj View Post
The intermittent over heat is probably caused by something floating in the cooling passages that gets in a position to block water flow. Turn off the engine and it floats out of the way and all is as it should be until you start up the engine again.

Cajun is right with the diagnoses.

I would bet on the exit to the exhaust manifold because the exhaust manifold is large enough that it can have large rust flakes that can swim around and periodically block the exist.

Another place to look is at the T going into the side plate directly after the pump. Bits of impellers of Christmas's past can get caught there.
Thats a great idea!

How would you suggest testing the "T" out?
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:56 PM
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CajunSpike CajunSpike is offline
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Yes the part in the pic, above the carburetor, is the manifold.

Specifically this is what I did.

Remove the line from the block to thermostat housing.
Crank the engine over, see if water flows.
yes? that's not the problem.
No...problem is there somewhere. Probably water pump(or T connector clogged as noted, great idea!).

Put line back to thermostat housing in.

Remove the line coming OUT the thermostat housing into the exhaust manifold inlet. I loosened the manifold end.
Crank the engine over, see if water flows out the hose.
Yes? That's not the problem.
No...problem is in there. Clogged housing?

Put the line back to manifold inlet.

Remove the water line exiting the exhaust manifold.
Crank the engine see if water flows.
Here is where i found little to no water flowing...thus revealing the problem. Yes I removed the brass fitting for access to the manifold exit hole to clean it out. A little random digging around was enough to free the clog...so next time I cranked it to check water flow, the water flushed the exhaust manifold outlet clean. Put the fitting and hose back on, and run see if it still heats up. Only other thing after this would be if the main exhaust hose has possibly collapsed internally due to age. This is simple enough to try.

If you want a short cut, just remove the manifold outlet line and crank the motor. Warning lots of water! If you get good water there, look further back. If you get nothing there, start there and work towards the pump.

If you loosen/remove the T inlet line, you can force water backwards in the T to thermostat line and push any trash back toward the water pump.
It wouldn't actually go there if you have removed the pump to T line, but would flush out.

This pic is when I had removed the exhaust manifold Inlet to test flow to that point. On my engine, the 'front' of the manifold is the water inlet. The 'back' of the motor is the water outlet.

You can see the outlet line on the left side, red hose. Where the outlet 90 angle pipe was screwed into the manifold, was my clog area.

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Last edited by CajunSpike; 05-08-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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  #6   IP: 76.91.15.223
Old 05-07-2018, 11:10 PM
chrisoelder chrisoelder is offline
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@CajunSpike

Makes sense. I was nervous to crank the engine without the cooling system 100% connected

Seems like a simple guess and check process. At the moment there is one thing I know when I open the sea valve water comes rushing where the impeller is.

This all makes a lot of sense (the kind of sense where you say "why in the hell didn't I think of that"). I will be getting back onto the boat this weekend and I will let you know what I find!


Thanks!
Chris
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:19 AM
zellerj zellerj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisoelder View Post
Thats a great idea!

How would you suggest testing the "T" out?
Helps to take off the alternator, then remove the hoses to the T and look for rubber bits of broken-off impeller blades stuck in the restrictions. I don't think this is your problem, because when there is a piece of rubber stuck in the T fitting, cooling issues are not intermittent.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:29 PM
chrisoelder chrisoelder is offline
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That's very impressive! Congrats on getting her running!

I am very new to this and wanted to apologize for my ignorance

How do you perform these tests? Based off what you are saying it sounds like that could be my issue.


The pump I am referring to is my raw saltwater cooling system.

That would make sense that it might not be the lack of a bypass valve but that water is getting clogged up. If I find out that it isn't my lack of a thermostat do you recommend getting a bypass valve either way?

A blockage in the outlet exhaust manifold would make sense since I am getting a strange flow of water. Just so i know this is the exhaust manifold
Name:  Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 7.26.55 PM.jpg
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If so, did you just remove one of the pipes and just clear it out?

If my memory serves me, after the water runs from the image above it meets with the exhaust in this big metal thing in a cockpit locker before it exits the boat

Last edited by chrisoelder; 05-07-2018 at 10:32 PM.
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