Ericson 27 - Atomic start problemnewbie but not mech newbie

[CajunSpike]

Hello everyone. Picked up an 1972 ericson 27 with an atomic 4, for a pretty cheap price. Now trying to get the engine started with help of friend, having issues.

[lat 64]

Tell us the issues.

first thought:

Don't crank the starter too much with seacock open. This will pump water into exhaust and then water will back up into the exhaust valve ports through the manifold. Most new owners of inboard engines have to learn this the hard way.

If you have already done this, then get some oil or water dispersant(WD-40) in those cylinders NOW. Rust develops in few minutes i some cases.



Oh. BTW, welcome,

Russ

[sastanley]

Cajun, welcome and congrats on the boat!
Pictures and details help a LOT. You have to give us some details and we can give better help.

+1 what lat64 said
How fresh is the gas?
How long has the engine been sitting since it ran last?
Probably need to clean the carburetor
Buy a new set of spark plugs (Champion RJ8 or equivelant)
Spark, fuel, compression..those are the 3 things needed to make her go! One step at a time.

[CajunSpike]

more info

Sorry I pressed enter too fast on the previous message. Meant to explain better.

Current state of affairs, keeping in mind i barely just bought this boat.

Engine sit time unknown. Only told 'last 2 owners neglected the boat'.
Does crank over with no difficulty.
New cap
new plugs
new wires
plugs known to spark
using outboard type fuel tank, 2 week old gas.
replaced clogged up original carb with very clean outside/inside carb.
Had a mechanic friend helping.
Had an electrical fuel pump but it would not work that we know of.
Engine had head gasket replaced at some point in past because I found old gaskets.
Have not done compression test.
I totally understand the 'close the water valve' problem due to research before I bought the boat. Valve was always closed unless it would start.

After running down 1 battery and switching to 2nd battery, we did get it to barely idle for about 10 minutes by switching from original carb to new used clean carb. Oil pressure 30/40. Positive amps. Was only doing gravity fuel feed because electric pump would not turn on/run.
Was getting water thru exhaust after opening water line while running at idle.
Trying to speed up killed the engine.

After reading a comment from Mr Moyer himself that the motor would barely idle with gravity feed, I went buy a new low pressure electric fuel pump. Went to the boat today to study the state of affairs. Found the existing electric pump had been wired to a manual power switch which was turned off during the start up tries.

So as of now:
New low pressure fuel pump installed, plumbed, connected temporarily
to manual on/off switch.
Battery on charge.
Planning on retrying next weekend.

Can I hook the fuel pump positive lead to the coil positive for power, so the pump kicks on with the key?

I'm new to the A4 but have worked on air cooled vw's for long time.

[ndutton]

Please have a compression gauge on hand next weekend and also check the timing advance weights under the points plate inside the distributor for freedom of movement and return springs intact.

[lat 64]

Cool! You have a motor. Just lotsa love, now it needs(it's talk like Yoda week).
Probably carb is just in need of a once-over.

Eventually you should have an oil pressure safety switch(OPSS) installed in series with your new fuel pump.

Cheers,

Russ

[CajunSpike]

Once(fingers crossed) I get it to starting reliably then I'll rewire the pump to work off the ignition switch.

I just know on most of these older engines, key on sends power to the coil positive, so that should be a valid source of switched power short term.

I do understand the oil pressure cut off idea as well, long term.
Thank you guys.

We did try fwd/reverse when it was running. Boat responded correctly to both.

I opened up the new/used carb before install. Only had a small area(eraser size) of fuel dust on the side of the bowl.
Pulled the small jet screwed into the bowl with screwdriver. Was clean. Fuel passage bottom of carb clean. Only thing I didn't pull was the skinny tube with the small holes,
in the center of the carb.

[Marian Claire]

Showing my lack of knowledge about this boat but is that the transmission and throttle control on the port side locker? Welcome to the forum.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[CajunSpike]

The levers in the cockpit area side wall down low are the tranny/engine speed control.
If thats what you are referring to, then yes.

This boat originally came with a tiller. Wheel was added on by some previous owner.

There is a gold plate on the interior wall referring to some 1979 sailing event, where the boat came in at 3rd place.

Boat was previously known as 'Try It'.
We're going to call it 'Seeker'.

[Marian Claire]

Cool. Thanks.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[CajunSpike]

Also found 3 brand new boxes of points in drawer. Love spare parts.

Found the original carb needle valve was missing its rubber seal on the tip.
This of course lead to fuel leakage when previous owner was trying to get it running.

[CajunSpike]

During the disassembly of the 2nd carb we tried that didn't help, I noticed there was a small spring clip that attached the float to the needle valve.

Also noticed the 3rd real clean carb currently on the engine did not have that clip.

Is it worth the time to take apart the not working carb just to take that clip out and put it in the 3rd real clean carb, considering there is an electric fuel pump on that carb to force the needle valve open when necessary?

[lat 64]

No nukes, no fire and fury

It is not the job of the fuel pump to force open the FLOAT valve. The fuel pump merely moves fuel to the float bowl. The float is buoyed by the fuel as is fills the float bowl and the float valve is pushed up into it's seat and closed by that lifting force.
This stops excess fuel flowing into the float bowl until it is used up by the venturi and more is needed. Then the float drops with the falling level of fuel and opens the float valve letting more fuel in.

Sometimes, but not by design, an electric fuel pump is so strong that it does overcome the float valve and pushes it down off the seat and too much fuel is delivered to the carb. Get the proper fuel pump.

This is why we should always have an Oil Pressure Safety Switch (OPSS) hooked up so if the engine dies while ignition switch is still on, the fuel pump with be shut off by the OPSS. No engine spinning, no oil pressure. No oil pressure, no voltage to electric fuel pump. And, no excess fuel pumped into carburator and overflowing into bilge to cause fiery death and destruction.
No Atomic bomb.

[tac]

Zenith Needle Valve Clip

See

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=97135&postcount=24

[CajunSpike]

More diagnosis

So I finally got back to the boat after the flu. Shore power is now on. Both batteries fully charged. Decided to go back to step1, with compression tester. From front of boat to back. 60 psi/50 psi/0 psi/90 psi.
Houston we have a problem. Tried cranking anyway. did see gas pooling a little in the bottom of carb. So the electric fuel pump is working. Engine kinda put-put-put but never kicked over. So now we know why. So would you pull the engine to do this fix or try to repair in hull?

Also found spark plug color is pale yellow, not bright blue. Going to replace/check the points.