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Old 10-03-2010, 09:54 AM
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MMI 502 flange pump

We currently have the Oberdorfer pump on our late model raw water cooled A4. The PO rebuilt it a few years ago and I have done nothing to it in the meantime. We've had no trouble with it. Nevertheless, it bears at least inspection during the winter and since we have no spare water pump I'm contemplating buying and installing the MMI 502 flange pump and rebuilding the Oberdorfer for use as a spare.

I'm looking for comments as to installation and performance of the MMI 502 from anyone who uses it.

Thanks!

Mark
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:57 AM
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Mark-
It's a great pump. Hands down better than the Oberdorfer.
There is no more Grease Cup to mess with and that alone makes it better.
The back plate with thumb screws make checking the impeller a breeze.
It's very easy to install.
Don't forget the Lower Bolt too. It's worth every penny and it's Shawn's favorite part!
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:10 AM
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Two flawless seasons here on a pair of those handy new MMI pumps.
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:08 PM
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I like mine
Breeze to install

Russ
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:45 PM
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2000 hrs +, quick look at the impeller and put it back together. This is not just a better pump, the MM502 is a better TECHNOLOGY by orders of magnitude. Just do it. Regards, Hanley
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigspelt View Post
Two flawless seasons here on a pair of those handy new MMI pumps.
Rigs,

How do you use two?

Mark
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:34 AM
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two pumps

I think I can answer that one: one for saltwater, one for fresh water in an FWC system.
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Last edited by Kelly; 10-05-2010 at 03:34 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
I think I can answer that one: one for saltwater, one for fresh water in an FWC system.
That's correct. The engine had been seawater cooled (freshwater for years prior). The original very old water pump was leaking so I swapped it out for a new MMI pump instead of fussing with a rebuild attempt in the middle of a major refit. At the same time I installed freshwater cooling and so added the second pump.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:37 AM
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Mmmm..lower bolt!

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Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Mark-
Don't forget the Lower Bolt too. It's worth every penny and it's Shawn's favorite part!
It's a good thing Ken's a quiet person...I OWN one of those now! (just gotta get a pic...not installed yet!) - I thought about making one using a long bolt with a lock nut or some such but I had a few other things to order from Ken, so I picked one up!

-right back at ya!
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Last edited by sastanley; 10-05-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:13 PM
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All right you guys,
I've been thinkin' "what is all this ballyhoo about a recessed bolt"?
I just don't get it.
On the bench in the shop, I used a socket and extension to get to it. Down at the boat, I used one of those new box-end wrenches with a ratcheting style insert to change the pump in less than a half hour. And that was because I forgot the socket at home.

Moyer's makes so many great and well-built upgrades to the A-4 design issues; I wish I had a bigger piggy bank so I could buy more.
But, I just haven't found this bolt to vex me like, say, the idle screw on the carb. Now that's doozy of a hard-to-reach, pain-in-the-rear item. I had to break my hand in two places just so it would fit in there!
Definitely that long carb idle screw is next on my list.

Is this pump bolt more of an issue on tight engine installations?

R.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:29 PM
Jesse Delanoy Jesse Delanoy is offline
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it just depends on your access. I have good access from the top and from the starboard side, but have a tough time getting a hand below and behind the pump to install that bottom bolt. Taking it out is easy, putting it back is hard. With the exension bolt, I can get my right hand below the water pump from starboard, to get a finger over the hole, while I use my left hand from above to fit the bolt into the hole. The extension makes it way easier - worth every penny.

From the top, I have no trouble getting a screwdriver on the idle speed screw.

Just depends on the boat.

Jesse Delanoy
1977 Catalina 30
Off The Grid
Baltimore/Pasadena MD
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
Is this pump bolt more of an issue on tight engine installations?
Russ-
I'll give you my perspective (FWIW)...

I think it's most definitely an access/space/reachability thing.
On my boat, that part of the engine has the tightest access.
I can only reach in there with one arm at a time. (without cutting a bigger hole)
So, with only one hand, it's much easier to get that long bolt started on the hole, then put a wrench on it and tighten down.
Getting the pump on "from scratch" requires laying over the engine and holding the pump in place while feeling my way to that top bolt hole.

Of course, if I had an extra arm/hand, all of this would be much easier.

As for the idle screw, that's one of the easier parts to reach for me.
So, as always with this stuff... YMMV.


EDIT- Jesse beat me to the punch or I wouldn't have repeated what he already posted.
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Last edited by roadnsky; 10-05-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:47 PM
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Thumbs up

I have easy access to the water pump and, like Russ, I can easily use a socket and extension. But every time I saw that picture of Jerry's I got envious and I had to have one. Wonder if we could use one for the other bolt?
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:02 PM
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I always struggled with the little stainless screws for the back cover of the 202 pump until the light bulb went off the last time I checked the impeller: I just got a 2" screw the same size as the plate's screws, put the long screw through the top hole of the plate and screwed in a few threads to hang the plate from the long screw. After that, it was easy to get the rest of them in and then replace the long screw with the correct one.

I still plan on replacing that old pump with the new one during the winter, though.

A question about that old pump: what is the purpose of the screw on top between the inlet and outlet?

Last edited by Baltimore Sailor; 10-05-2010 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Delanoy View Post
it just depends on your access. I have good access from the top and from the starboard side, but have a tough time getting a hand below and behind the pump to install that bottom bolt. Taking it out is easy, putting it back is hard. With the exension bolt, I can get my right hand below the water pump from starboard, to get a finger over the hole, while I use my left hand from above to fit the bolt into the hole. The extension makes it way easier - worth every penny.

From the top, I have no trouble getting a screwdriver on the idle speed screw.

Just depends on the boat.

Jesse Delanoy
1977 Catalina 30
Off The Grid
Baltimore/Pasadena MD
Jesse and I have the same boat...& I suspect I will experience the same joy. I removed my water pump when I had the galley counter out. Even though Catalina 30's have some of the best reported engine access, I am not sure how to do it easily thru the opposing access doors.

I have also found the mech. fuel pump bolts to be a pain even though I have decent access to that too..in that case you can't physically get a socket/extension around the pump body. It is almost possible with a universal in the mix, as long as you goop the bolt to the socket so it doesn't drop in the bilge & you can get the threads lined up without stripping/cross threading.
Hanley has already been kind enough in another thread to give me the specs for allen head replacements, which I can pick up locally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimore Sailor View Post
A question about that old pump: what is the purpose of the screw on top between the inlet and outlet?
BS, I am pretty sure that is the screw that threads into and holds the 'shoe' in the pump housing..it has a washer of some sort too. Check out Moyer's pump parts section.

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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
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Last edited by sastanley; 10-05-2010 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:18 PM
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Hatching an idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Delanoy View Post
it just depends on your access.
That seems to sum itup.
I admit I did cut access to the starboard side of the engine with a little door from the quarter berth. Can't do much without that little door open.

And,... I'm considering one of those big Hell's-Angels,-Bering-sea,-crab-boat, lazarette hatches right over the engine in the cockpit footwell.

I could reach down, open the hatch, fix some engine stuff, close the hatch and drink beer, easy livin'

What was this thread about anyway?


Russ
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
And,... I'm considering one of those big Hell's-Angels,-Bering-sea,-crab-boat, lazarette hatches right over the engine in the cockpit footwell.
Russ,
The last generation of the Westsail 32 deck had a fully removable cockpit sole. There was a gutter type flange around the perimeter that included a provision for the cockpit drains in the corners and a gasketed lid that overlapped that. It provided great engine access. On my 80's project the engine installation was one of the last things I did, craned a Perkins 4 cyl. diesel straight down onto its mounts through that hatch. Note that the Westsail is a tiller steered boat.
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:43 PM
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Westsails are great boats. I sailed on two of them, they go like a freight train when everyone else is bashing.
I think they have their own gravity too.
Wm. Crealock designed my boat too, but I think he put more love in the Westsail 32
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
All right you guys,
But, I just haven't found this bolt to vex me like, say, the idle screw on the carb. Now that's doozy of a hard-to-reach, pain-in-the-rear item. I had to break my hand in two places just so it would fit in there!
Definitely that long carb idle screw is next on my list.

R.
I have, I think, the very first long carb idle screw. In my opinion it could be even longer, all the better to see and grab. Also, the adjustment part, which is both knurled (presumably for finger adjustment) and slotted (for a flat-head screwdriver), cannot actually be manually adjusted, at least not by my fingers. It could have a much larger diameter -- like the knurled replacement screw for the carb flame arrestor.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
In my opinion it could be even longer, all the better to see and grab. Also, the adjustment part, which is both knurled (presumably for finger adjustment) and slotted (for a flat-head screwdriver), cannot actually be manually adjusted, at least not by my fingers. It could have a much larger diameter -- like the knurled replacement screw for the carb flame arrestor.
Hi, Ted. I'll make sure Don is aware of this feedback.

You do indeed have the first one, as the product was your idea.

Bill
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:52 AM
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Sounds like we'll soon have a "tender's screw mark II"
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
All right you guys, I've been thinkin' "what is all this ballyhoo about a recessed bolt"? I just don't get it ... Is this pump bolt more of an issue on tight engine installations?
Yup. Trust me. I got the original out by standing on my head and padding my left shoulder with a cushion against the fuel tank, and my right knee with a fender against an after bulkhead, and trying to ignore the blood rushing to my head, while doing it by feel.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:04 PM
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Darn..

I knew I forgot to order something! Oh well, I'll include this in the next order....
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