Block cracked... any repair possible?

[Surcouf]

So just as I was about to pump the oil sump back for for final paint... I find this... it was not like this a week ago. Have I put to more effort on the block when I removed the oil casing a few days ago? For sure this area (below the water jacket plate) was the worst in terms of corrosion.

Any repair possible? Crack is at least 10 inches long, and goes through the block on the whole length...
Thank you

[ndutton]

My opinion is if you attempt a repair of any kind you'll never be able to trust this engine. Sorry.

[ronstory]

My friend... Neil is right. If you have a crack (plus it is that big) ... that motor should be dead to you. You need a new block.

I just checked fleabay, and the guy that had a formerly running A4 in pieces for $395 plus shipping is closed. The same guy has one for $295 that had been flooded, and the crank would need to ground plus camshaft looked to toast. However, it was full rebuilt a few years back and has an MMI head and manifold. I was thinking of buying it just for the MMI 'bling'.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATOMIC-4-Block-Disassemble-Marine-Engine-PARTS-takeout-sailboat-motor-AT4/114071950425?hash=item1a8f37d459:g:roYAAOSw-mteIm9u

... but no distributor.

[ndutton]

Moved here to avoid polluting Launchpad's thread further

Hello,
The crack in at the bottom of the block close to the lip where the oil pan is bolted.
Would a pressure test have been useful to detect that one? As far as I understand it the pressure test is in the water system no?
Thank you!

Point taken but that wasn't the question. Did you perform a cooling system pressure test before taking it apart? Even if this crack might not have been discovered, if the block is in such poor condition that it would crack with handling and disassembly it puts the integrity of the entire block in question or in other words, what else is wrong? Block integrity is critical to the decision making process of whether to rebuild or not.

Next question, where do you go from here? Attempt to repair this block, Moyer block, used engine, outboard? If considering a used engine the pressure testing advisement applies as well, preferably before committing to the deal.

[Surcouf]

Moved here to avoid polluting Launchpad's thread furtherPoint taken but that wasn't the question. Did you perform a cooling system pressure test before taking it apart? Even if this crack might not have been discovered, if the block is in such poor condition that it would crack with handling and disassembly it puts the integrity of the entire block in question or in other words, what else is wrong? Block integrity is critical to the decision making process of whether to rebuild or not.

Next question, where do you go from here? Attempt to repair this block, Moyer block, used engine, outboard? If considering a used engine the pressure testing advisement applies as well, preferably before committing to the deal.

Good thing to change thread!
No pressure test done earlier, I understand the reason why you would really want one before buying a used block.
I Would like to do one on the cracked block, out of curiosity, what pressure do you recommend? Test on air or water? What duration would be pass / fail criteria?

From now on, no idea. I am still digesting the fact that I have lost several months of very partial work. If I was to keep that boat for a long time, I would likely go short MM block. But I am very likely to leave the US in August, so I am only looking at a few week ends of sailing. And I do not feel like throwing 3 to 5 grand for a boat in addition to what I already have into it, that I will maybe sell one or two... if I go used block, full overhaul pulling out piston, machining etc...I will not be done if 5-6 weeks when boat will go back in the water.

So I just do not know, yet.

[roadnsky]

I Would like to do one on the cracked block, out of curiosity, what pressure do you recommend? Test on air or water? What duration would be pass / fail criteria?

Sorry about your block.
Here are a couple of threads about pressure testing.
(You'll see Neil's fingerprint on both)

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11111

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8063

[ndutton]

The accepted pressure test standard is 20 PSI for 30 minutes, something in that range. I've always felt 20 PSI was a little high considering our RWC engines run at 0 PSI and FWC more like 4 PSI but whatever, y'know?

For the immediate future I suggest first setting budgets in terms of cost and time then proceeding with the best you can do within those budgets. Please read Ando's recent thread "My A-4 Adventures". He recently went through a very similar exercise on his Catalina 27. It has been a long haul for him but there was a considerable - - and successful - - learning curve in his case.

As an example, if you can find a running A4 takeout it can be a matter of maybe a weekend and you're back in business.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Where is the boat now. I know of a Cat 27* that has a well running A4 that might be available in the southern California area.

* My 1979 Cat 27, hull # 4446, that I sold in December of last year. At one time the new owner was talking about getting rid of the A4.

ex TRUE GRIT

[edwardc]

A few used A4s:

$1000:

https://www.letgo.com/en-us/i/atomic-4-sailboat-engine_0fdeeeca-e42b-4f55-a31b-a0b167c6058b

$1500:

https://annapolis.craigslist.org/bpo/d/rock-hall-universal-atomic-4-engine-30/7090164638.html

$200

https://slo.craigslist.org/bpo/d/oceano-1960-universal-atomic-4/7088024083.html

[Surcouf]

Where is the boat now. I know of a Cat 27* that has a well running A4 that might be available in the southern California area.

* My 1979 Cat 27, hull # 4446, that I sold in December of last year. At one time the new owner was talking about getting rid of the A4.

ex TRUE GRIT

I am in Rhode Island.
Thank you!

[scratchee]

...I just checked fleabay, and the guy that had a formerly running A4 in pieces for $395 plus shipping is closed.

This one appears to be open (maybe the same one? $395, running but possible valve problem): https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATOMIC-4-Co....c100667.m2042

It's in Delaware.

[jcwright]

Hello Surcouf.

I see you are in Rhode Island. The last time I went by Wickford Marine Consignment, there were two A4s in their outside storage area.

Jack

[Surcouf]

Hello Surcouf.

I see you are in Rhode Island. The last time I went by Wickford Marine Consignment, there were two A4s in their outside storage area.

Jack

Great thank you!! I will be there first thing tomorrow (with my mask of course)

[Al Schober]

Had to check the date.. No, not an April 1 posting.
Sorry gents, but a pressure test of the cooling chambers would NOT have disclosed this crack. The only thing on the other side of that crack is splash oil.
Big mystery in my mind is what made it crack? Did this thing fall off the workbench with half the oil pan unbolted?
Looks like it might be a candidate for that seam stitching repair. I'd want to pull the oil pan and look inside and see what the other side of that crack impacts.

[Surcouf]

Had to check the date.. No, not an April 1 posting.
Sorry gents, but a pressure test of the cooling chambers would NOT have disclosed this crack. The only thing on the other side of that crack is splash oil.
Big mystery in my mind is what made it crack? Did this thing fall off the workbench with half the oil pan unbolted?
Looks like it might be a candidate for that seam stitching repair. I'd want to pull the oil pan and look inside and see what the other side of that crack impacts.

So I pulled the dremmel and cleaned the crack; it initiates from the «*pivot*» (not sure what is the proper English word for this small round metal piece belonging to the oil pan, and that is used to center the oil pan and the block). That confirms that I probably caused that crack yesterday when removing the oil pan: I struggle a little to remove the pan and wiggle it a little, in lieu of finding something to gently pry it open. Fatal mistake on a weakened block. Lesson learnt. Pass me the tissues (I am still so missed off against myself).

Al, the second picture is one from the inside of the block. It is quite horizontal, and does not «*touch*» anything specific.

While I was cleaning the crack with the dremmel, I went to clean further that side of the block where the corrosion was the worst.... and one of the POs clearly used a LOT of JB weld. There is a square patch of JB weld (or equivalent), maybe 2 by 5 inches between the crack and the water jacket plate. Can’t say I am a huge fan of JB weld, but in the past 5 years, I never had a drop of water leaking, so it probably made the job for many years (the PO Just before had that boat for 4 years and did not touch the engine).