Engine fire extinquisher system and fuses

[ArtJ]

I was wondering if any of you guys have experience with selecting and
installing a automatic fire extinquisher system for the engine compartment.
In the case of my Tartan 34c, the engine, batteries, regulators,battery
fuse and fuel tank are located in near proximity.

What type of automatic safety equipment is available?

Also with regard to Main battery fuse, are there intrinsically safe breakers
available?

Best Regards

Art

[Mo]

10 lb extinguishers ...

Art,
If everything is in a confined space it's relatively easy. For example, a 10lb dry chemical could be mounted in a lazarette and its nozzel through a bulkhead and into the engine compartment. Pull the pin and it would knock down any fire in that space.

The problem occurs when the space is large or there are no bulkheads actually enclosing the space. The dry chemical then may be dispersed too much to be effective. This is the situation on my boat. I have a 10 lb'er on one side of the lazarette and the nozzel pointed toward the engine...pull pin and squeeze. The whole area is not sealed off so it may or may not put a fire down first shot.

Proper safety regarding fuel issues should prevent "explosive" incidents. In the case of explosion these are, violent and immediate. You could not activate the device. The best you can do is PREVENT or put out a fire after... if you are able.

Most fires on boats are not explosive. However, they must be extinguished. The main problem is not having enough "umph" in the fire extinguisher. I'll phrase it like this...it's like going up against a machine gun with a .38 revolver. If the extinguisher is too small the chances of it working out for you are limited from the start.

Odyssey's fire extinguishers....(4) 10lb dry chemical and (2) 5 lbs dry chemical..the only reason there are 5 lb extinguishers on the boat is because she came with them. One 10 lb'er can knock down a decent fire....the other are just in case.

[ArtJ]

Thanks for the input Maurice

You are right, fuel related explosions are immediate and probably a
automatic fire extinqusher system would not be fast enough to prevent
a fire or explosion. Besides that, they are subject to possible accidental
activation and could create havoc with components.
I was hoping that some sort of foam bath for the engine could prevent
this issue. Maybe it could prevent a explosion when a fire occurred prior
to the explosion.
I have previously installed a fume detector alarm, possibly
that combined with a installed extinquisher as you suggestwould give time to
spray the compartment and prevent explosion.

The other method, as you mention, is to carefully monitor wiring,
fuses.

A few years back, I installed a 100A? fuse in the primary ckt of the
battery. The fear I have is that this fuse could catch fire and
not blow clean. There must be breakers or fuses that could
prevent this.

Regards

Arr

[msauntry]

An excellent thread to open up! My thoughts turn to the Fireboy automatic units. I was looking them up and they have models to cover various cubic footage. They have diesel and gasoline specific models and the agent is not supposed to harm or contaminate the boat after discharge. I know the dry chemical ones can damage and corrode any electronics. They trigger at a certain temperature and/or manually.

I do not know of any systems that will prevent a fire, only react to one already in progress. This is where the fume sniffers would come in handy. Anybody got specs on a fume sniffer that is comercially available? I know some of you have Pearsons that came with them installed but that part manufacturer is no longer running.

[67c&ccorv]

My 67 C&C Corvette had an automatic Halon fire extinguisher system mounted in the engine compartment but I removed it as it had long ago passed it's final inspection date.

[sastanley]

Micah, I think Neil has a sniffer in his boat. That might be for the CNG/propane system though..I cannot recall at this time.

[edwardc]

A few years back, I installed a 100A? fuse in the primary ckt of the
battery. The fear I have is that this fuse could catch fire and
not blow clean. There must be breakers or fuses that could
prevent this.

Regards

Arr

The ANL fuses, sold by Defender and others, are ignition protected and rated for gasoline boats:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|296553|823931&id=1334628

[Dockside Charlie]

Fire Boy "Halon" has been a popular fire suppressant for quite a while.Dry chemical extinguishers should be kept onboard for the last resort of a fire not suppressed by the Halon.Halon activation interupts the flame travel and gives option to control the event.Dry chemical,if necessary will help to complete extinguish a fire,if necessary, but does have corrosive side effects,that is if the fire does'nt overwhelm the vessel.The best preventative measure is a thoughtful,carefully thought out installation of electrical componants in possible fuel(vapors) source.Ventilation,separation as possible.

[ArtJ]

Thanks guys for the excellent suggestions. I believe West Marine carries
gasolline fume alarms. I installed one a number of years ago. Really
appreciated all the information on extinquishers. We had someone at
my club aboard troubleshooting a electrical problem who was severely
burned persumptously by live ckts in the presence of fumes.

regards

Art

[ILikeRust]

My boat came with an older, small FireBoy automatic discharge halon unit installed in the engine box. I wanted to have a qualified technician check it out to confirm it was still good, but I couldn't find anyone who would touch it. The guy told me to just weight it and as long as it weighs what it's supposed to, it should still be good. I contacted FireBoy and asked the question and was told the same thing. I was glad to find it weighs exactly what it is supposed to, because they are impressively expensive to buy new.

Come to think of it, I need to figure out where I can fit it now that I've installed FWC. The heat exchanger is now hanging right where the extinguisher was before.

[ndutton]

As Shawn said, I have the Xintex MB-1R fume detection system installed.

http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/MB1.html

It has audio and visual alarms and operates the blower when combustible fumes are detected. I keep it on at all times, even when I'm not there.

[Mo]

Good plan Neil.

Neil,
That's about as good as it gets. Prevention is the key.

I'd like to make a suggestion about extinguisher placement in the boat. I've seen lots in the galley area where galley fires are anticipated.

Placement of Extinguishers:
Extinguishers should be located in areas where you may access them easily while leaving the boat. The first thing to is move to a safe area, grab an extinguisher then attack the fire. No good trying to haul an extinguisher off the rack when flames are licking at your face.

Fire safe training has always dictated that you leave the area and do not return to fight the fire. If you are along side make the decision to fight or not and call 911. If you are at sea you have no choice...you need to get that fire out. Once fiberglass gets going it's hard to put out...so get that fire out fast. And you will have to do it.

Extinguisher locations on Odyssey.

-10 lbs....base of mast
-10 lbs....stb lazarette. Stb lazarette is enclosed with hole through bulhead and extinguisher nozed pointed in engine compartment through a hole. This also counts as my outside extinguisher. Because it is down in a sealed lazarette, fire in the boat will not interfere with my access to it. If I pull the pin and squeeze it will empty into the engine compartment and under cockpit area. If I need to pull it out and unload it into the boat it comes out just by lifting straight up...nozzel also will come...I've tried it.
-10 lbs....V birth Prt side...for exiting the forward hatch. Can then make a decision if you want to fight fire from there and extinguisher is available.
-10 lbs... stb settee area.
-5 lb in closet stb side...came with the boat and I left them where it was.
-5 lb at base of steps....came with the boat and I left them where it was.

I think I paid either $39 or $49 (can't remember now) for each 10 lb extinguisher at Costco. So let's say fire system cost $200. Really not that bad.

[ndutton]

What I'd like to do is add one of Fireboy's automatic Clean Agent extinguishers (No Halon anymore) and connect it in a tiered system. The first tier would be the detector that automatically turns on the blower to evacuate any combustible fumes, the second tier would be the extinguisher that detects heat and discharges into the engine space and at the same time shuts down the blower. We don't want to exhaust all that precious extinguishing gas.

[ArtJ]

The ANL fuses, sold by Defender and others, are ignition protected and rated for gasoline boats:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...931&id=1334628

I (mistakenly?) in the past took ignition protected to mean it somehow
protected engine ignition electrical parts, should I have read this
as FUSE IS FLAME IGNiTION PROOF as in flamming of the fuse and surrounding fumes?

Regards

Art

[Dockside Charlie]

Ignition protected is intended to mean the electrical componant,bat-chgr,pump,alt,dist,str,blwr,fuse,etc.in it's normal function,could possibly create a fuel source to ignite/combust(hydrg-gas from batteries,gasoline fumes,diesel or lube oil leaks on heated surfaces creating flammable vapors,propane)less likely but not garrenteed to ignite unintentionaly or expectedly.These units are resistant to,not infallible and do not relate to points and plugs firing the engines running.Safety is the focus.