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  #251   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-10-2013, 08:40 PM
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Smile

Looks like PT26 now halted in Lake Boca Raton, definitely getting into the high rent district.
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  #252   IP: 70.193.194.60
Old 01-10-2013, 09:00 PM
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Land of the bridges

We were waiting in Lake Worth for the next low to come through to jump but after watching the morning weather the high is holding the low to far north.
They also said it wouldn't be until later at the end of the month for the weather change. We decided not to wait and keep heading South.
It was a bit windy but it was in our favor, thank God. We would have never made the run from bridge opening to bridge opening.
This area is a concrete walled Chanel with boats flying through with the wakes bouncing from side to side like a washing machine
Lake Worth was a good layover though, oil changed, spark plugs checked, bilge pump cleaned and checked, engine compartment cleaned and wiped down.
The A4 didn't use any oil since the last oil change.
We have some photos but I still can't figure out how to upload them from my iPad.
I will pull out the PC and upload them from there soon.
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S/V PT26
1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #253   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-11-2013, 08:02 PM
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Talking

PT 26 halted behind Miami Beach near the Venetian Causeway.
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  #254   IP: 70.193.194.60
Old 01-12-2013, 12:12 PM
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Sailing the Keys

Hi all,

We anchored up between the islands just North and East of the Venetian Causeway. It is a good spot protected from all sides but the North. Blueberry pancakes for breakfast and we were underway.

Finally we are sailing our way South through the Keys, it's a beautiful day.
The wind is perfect keeping us at hull speed most of the time, Ahhh the quiet.
For the most part it is deep enough to just sail along no worries, just a few shoal markers not many.
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1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #255   IP: 70.193.202.159
Old 01-12-2013, 11:27 PM
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Trouble in paradise

We were running the motor as we sailed through a bridge South of Tuesdays Cove due to current and shifting winds... After passing the bridge and going through a bit of a tight channel, the motor suddenly stopped running.

I knew I was close to empty, I thought I had run the A4 out of fuel. I added 5 gallons and had plenty of fuel in the tank so it had not run out of fuel?
I refueled but didn't need the engine, we were under sail again.

After all the bridges the day before we decided to call it an early day.
I went to start her up and nothing... Nada! With Trina at the helm I lowered the back up outboard and we sounded our way in to Thursday Cove just East of Cross Key and dropped the anchor in 7 feet tucked in tight.

We looked at each other not a word said but knew what each of us were thinking... Here, now, in the middle of no where!?

So began the process of elimination, changed water separator filter, no not it.
Changed inline fuel filter, no not it, changed out coil, no not it.
Bypassed oil pressure safety switch... Ok this is getting crazy, not it!?
Fuel pump is running but no fuel( pulled hose off stuck it in a bottle and nothing )

So now we are getting some where but why no fuel?

We made the decision to pull the new water separator off put on the old one and get out the small air compressor pull the fuel line and blow air back into the tank. After putting it all back together she started but sputtered out... So we did the same thing a couple more times... Sputter sputter pooped out!

After thinking a bit and battling the Mosquitos that have over come us due to it getting dark we decided to go the other way and pull a vacuum on the fuel line just before the carb. Low and behold here comes the fuel, with a thumb over the line it was reinstalled. We turned on the blower and the fans in the boat and blew out the fumes for a time and took a break.

Ok here goes... The A4 started like it has everyday running perfect!

What happened here I am not sure, we think it had an air lock in the line.
After seven hours the boat is back together all things stowed away ready for tomorrow's run.
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S/V PT26
1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #256   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-13-2013, 12:24 AM
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Question

Paul and Trina, Hi! Sounds like you did run out of fuel or at least it got down low enough to let air into the pickup tube. In effect you may have just lost prime. Best to keep main tank full if possible. Looks like you are making good progress. Are you going all the way to the end of the Keys?
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  #257   IP: 70.193.202.159
Old 01-13-2013, 10:51 AM
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Still troubled

So we started the motor and warmed it up before we pulled anchor. In 30 minutes it stopped working. We assumed that maybe we should try priming again so we hooked the oil change pump to the hose that attached to the carb and we pulled a vacuum and sucked gas through until we no longer saw air bubbles coming down the line.

We started her up and she ran for another 30 minutes.

We've calculated the fuel, we have a 12 gallon tank and we've added 7 gallons since this problem started ( so there was still fuel in the tank)

Then we tried priming again, this time pulling 1.5 qts of fuel through the line followed by testing the fuel pump by bypassing the safety switch... Fuel pump work like a dream. Started her up and 30 minutes later she died again.

The motor sounds fine when it's running until just before it shuts off. Right before it shuts off we hear a few air bubbles through the fuel pump and then the motor races slightly... Then dies.

Any thoughts?
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S/V PT26
1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #258   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 01-13-2013, 11:22 AM
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A few wild guesses Paul:
  • Try running with the fuel fill cap open. This will eliminate the tank vent system as the problem.
  • Check ALL hose connections from the tank to the fuel pump. You might be drawing air into the system. If there is enough hose length trim off the ends and reconnect.
  • I'd pull the in-tank pickup tube and check for a crack or other breach at or above the fuel level.
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  #259   IP: 173.53.22.120
Old 01-13-2013, 11:25 AM
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I was gonna "wild guess" the same thing as Neil - you've got air getting into the fuel line somewhere along the way. Either a crack or corrosion hole in the pickup tube or in the line or a fitting somewhere.

Just a guess....
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  #260   IP: 108.28.109.76
Old 01-13-2013, 01:09 PM
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I'm with Neil's third bullet: Check the pickup for an air leak above the fuel level.
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  #261   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-13-2013, 01:22 PM
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Paul, When the engine shuts down it is important to check the fuel bowl right away to confirm that fuel is the issue. If you can somehow cobble a gauge into the line just before the carb that would be helpful.
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  #262   IP: 70.193.202.159
Old 01-13-2013, 01:25 PM
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We tried leaving the cap open, Trina thought the same thing about the pulling of a vacuum.

We found a fuel pump but before we dingy in we'll check the pickup tube in case that's the problem

Great guess, thanks for the help, we'll keep you posted.

For now we're under sail heading toward the closest anchorage to the parts store.
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S/V PT26
1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #263   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-13-2013, 01:43 PM
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Paul, You should also consider the possibility of a small piece of crud restricting the needle and seat inlet valve such that the bowl is slowly drained over a 30 minute period from (full) start up. While you are at the parts store pick up a fuel pressure gauge.
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  #264   IP: 70.193.202.159
Old 01-13-2013, 02:11 PM
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Thanks Hanley
Good idea, I found a good spot for parts and we are sailing there now.
ETA... 3 miles
They even have a fuel pump so I am going to pick one up just in case.
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S/V PT26
1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #265   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-13-2013, 03:15 PM
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Question

Hard to see how you could get any closer to that NAPA (unless you were amphibious) What's the depth there?
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  #266   IP: 70.193.202.159
Old 01-13-2013, 03:32 PM
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Pulling into Napa

This is a drive through, right? LOL
Hanley the water is so clear I had Trina on the bow to tell me what she could see.
Her reply was... How the heck do I know, there is no depth perception the water is to clear... So we just eased up in here, depth sounding until I found a six foot area. We were a little hesitant because we went over a few five foot spots
You know your in clean water when you can see you anchor and know it set!
Now we are going to start checking the tank etc... I will post what we find.
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S/V PT26
1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #267   IP: 65.94.245.165
Old 01-13-2013, 07:50 PM
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No one has spoken of a fuel/water separator, or fuel filter, needing a change!
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  #268   IP: 70.193.202.159
Old 01-13-2013, 08:20 PM
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Talking Solved

To check the pickup line we used the oil change pump and attached it directly to the line coming from the tank. Our assumption being that if there is a hole in the pickup line we'd see air bubbles in the line as we pulled fuel from the tank. No air bubbles were seen.

To check the possibility of an air leak in the fittings we shut the valve at the tank and pulled a vacuum from the line that connects to the carb. The basis of this test being that if there was an air leak in a line or fitting we'd loose the vacuum. The vacuum held.

So with nothing to lose I sent Paul in to get a new fuel pump. I figured that maybe the tapping we were hearing wasn't air bubbles going thought the pump but maybe it was the pump failing to pull enough fuel from the tank.

I installed the new fuel pump made sure all connection were tight and then tested everything by, once again bypassing the safety switch so when the key came on the fuel pump would run without starting the motor. After everything was given the safety tested and leak free approval, I hooked the safety switch back up an lo and behold she fired right up and has been running for an hour.

So after changing all the filters (multiple times) testing the tank and lines, priming, and all the other random things, it seems that the fuel pump wasn't working like it should have been.

For future reference, we're anchored in Buttonwood Sound at ICW mile 1143 near Snook's restaurant in 6.5 ft of water and there's an Advanced Auto and a Napa across the street just to the South... And they take used oil.

Thank you guys all for your help!
--Trina
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1971 Grampian G26 W/A4


"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #269   IP: 76.7.144.218
Old 01-13-2013, 08:55 PM
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Been on the MC for a few days so missed your posts. Good job with the fuel pump. If you take the fuel pump base off see if the small ball is stuck. I believe Ed has done this and I unjambed/fixed my pump this way. The louder sound my pump made when jambed is definitely different than the regular ticking of the pump.
Can you still use the dingy landing at the end of the street just north of Snooks?
Dan S/V Marian Claire
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  #270   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 01-13-2013, 09:39 PM
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Thumbs up Job well done

Paul and Trina, Excellent diagnostic procedure! I guess what we learn from this is that a ticking, apparently functional, fuel pump ain't necessarily for real. It may not be actually maintaining fuel pressure at the carb.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:31 PM
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Snooks

Yes you can dinghy into their dock, I told them what I was up to and the reply was... No worries, take care of what you need to do your dinghy is fine right where it is. Awesome people with a great attitude

So we will be leaving in the morning headed for Marathon.

( side note, I am the luckiest guy to have such a great wife. Always willing to jump right in the middle of it all to get it done, she's my BFF )
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  #272   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 01-14-2013, 05:28 PM
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Thumbs up

1715 PT 26 entering Boot Key Harbor.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:59 PM
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Boot Key Harbor

It was a nice day we had a good run from Key Largo to Boot Key.
We did have to run the A4 this morning but that was ok with me after all we went through the last couple days. The A4 ran like a dream... Sweeeet
We ran along on the inside using the protection of the land because it was to get real windy and it did. We hit Steamboat Channel perfect at high tide, super shallow no passage possible for us at low tide. We were able to sail for a good portion of the day.
The Captain said we are going to hang out here for a little while and do some short trips and the come back to the mooring here.
A mooring is 225 a month includes dinghy dock, showers and pump out when you need it so its a good home base to be on for the area.
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"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #274   IP: 70.193.201.46
Old 01-25-2013, 07:41 AM
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Leaving boot key harbor

We left Boot Key Harbor yesterday and anchored around the corner in the Fanny Key islands. Our stay was awesome, we even hopped the bus and checked out the sailboat races a few days ago.

We're heading back to the mainland, Everglades City FL being our first stop.
--Trina
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"The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire"
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  #275   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 01-25-2013, 08:11 AM
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Sounds allot better than most of us further north....-20 C Here this morning...thats about 4 F.....wish I was sailing the coast of Fl today.
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