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Old 12-22-2013, 08:44 AM
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Milky Oil

I have removed my engine in order to evaluate repairing it. I did find milky looking oil in the crankcase. I know that can be from over cranking (yes, I am guilty of this... but have been careful not to do so since the last oil change). Oil definitely has runs of white streaks in it. What is the issue if this is not from over cranking?
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:56 AM
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Some of the possibilities are a breach of the cooling system into the crankcase, a worn raw water pump seal allowing water in through the auxiliary drive or residual water from before the last oil change. It usually takes a few oil changes to fully clean things up.

If I were faced with your symptoms and history I would perform a pressure test on the cooling system to determine its integrity (easy to do with a gauge and a bicycle pump), pending a successful test, replace the seals in the raw water pump (there's no downside and it's probably due anyway) and finally do a few more oil changes.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Some of the possibilities are a breach of the cooling system into the crankcase, a worn raw water pump seal allowing water in through the auxiliary drive or residual water from before the last oil change. It usually takes a few oil changes to fully clean things up.

If I were faced with your symptoms and history I would perform a pressure test on the cooling system to determine its integrity (easy to do with a gauge and a bicycle pump), pending a successful test, replace the seals in the raw water pump (there's no downside and it's probably due anyway) and finally do a few more oil changes.
thanks much. So it could be the actual block failure... a cooling jacket penetration to the oil side of the engine? (if it is not just the water pump seals). Where do I connect the pump and the gauge. What poundage? Say 5 lbs as long as it holds?

Last edited by Scott Abbott; 12-22-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:21 AM
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Hi Scott:

I have been there myself and various posts are found in "Water in Oil" thread. I also posted a photo of my bike gauge set-up. Our sponsor recommended 20 psi (see below) but others here think that is a bit high.

Don's Advice:

Whenever water is discovered to be only in the oil, we recommend that the oil be changed at least three times before moving ahead to more serious troubleshooting. If the oil cleans up, we make the assumption that weather conditions were right for condensation or that some water may have splashed into the dip stick tube, etc. We hear of several episodes each year where small amounts of water have shown up in the crankcase, for which there is never any cause found and where (happily) the water never returns.

If the oil clears after the third change and you want more assurance that there is no problem with any of your cooling jackets, you can perform a quick check of your water-jacketed castings by pinching off the water discharge hose coming off the back of the manifold for several ten-second pressure checks. A flexible impeller pump in good condition can produce 20 to 25 psi when deadheaded in this fashion. If there is a crack anywhere in the water jacketed castings, this amount of pressure will usually force water back into the oil at a rate that should be unmistakable.

If small amounts of water do continue to appear in the oil after the third oil change, we recommend checking the following items (admittedly rather long shots) before moving on to more serious maintenance:

1) Inspect to see if a Sherwood or Jabsco water pump is installed on the engine. Both of these brands have the potential of passing a bit of water into the crankcase if their water seals leak and the weep holes in their housings become plugged with grease and crud. In this scenario, trapped water along the shaft of the pump can force past the second seal (the one preventing oil from coming out of the crankcase) and into the oil pan. Oberdorfer and MMI flexible impeller pumps have large weep holes in their housings, so they don't have this same potential.

2) Remove the valve cover to inspect for water entering into the valve chamber through a hole in the very center of the water jacket behind the valve springs. In some of the later model engines (usually with serial numbers over 194,000), Universal used a 1/4" pipe plug to close a hole in that area. The problem is that they used plain steel plugs which have a strong potential to fail after the 25 or so years since they were installed.

If no other cause can be found for water that continues to appear in your oil, we would have to suspect a crack in the lower part of the water jacket within the block. The easiest way to pressure test the block (without removing the head) is to first plug the outlet of the thermostat housing. Then remove the hose from the outlet of the water pump, and install a Schrader valve in the end of the hose, so that a standard bicycle tire pump with a built-in pressure gauge can be used for the test. A Schrader valve is the standard valve used on automobiles, and they are available at any auto parts store. The block should be able to hold 20 psi for an hour or more without a noticeable drop in pressure.

If you have an early model engine, you can perform a pressure test on your early model engine using a bicycle pump with a built in pressure gauge as follows:

1) Remove the water fitting from the inlet to the water jacket side plate, and install a 1/4" pipe plug in the inlet. If you have previously replaced the 3/8" metal tube between the pump and the side plate with a rubber hose, it may be easier to remove the hose from the outlet fitting of the pump and install a plug in the end of the hose for the test.

2) Remove whatever fitting is installed in the outlet of the manifold, and install a reducer bushing and a Schrader valve in that location.

3) Pressurize the block, head, and manifold to 20 psi. The cooling jackets should be able to hold 20 psi for an hour or more without a noticeable drop in pressure.

Best regards,

Don Moyer
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:06 PM
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Hi Scott,
I have a bit of free time this morning. If you would like to give me a call I can do what I can to try and sort through your trouble shooting process.
number

nine 0 two, four six one, one two two eight.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo View Post
Hi Scott,
I have a bit of free time this morning. If you would like to give me a call I can do what I can to try and sort through your trouble shooting process.
number

nine 0 two, four six one, one two two eight.
Thanks Mo... just saw this. Thanks for the offer! You very well may get a call from me soon!
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:18 AM
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Some photos of the block pressurization process. Note Neil's photo of an elegant combo valve/gauge after my redneck bike tube efforts.

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7221
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:25 PM
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Did I read that the oil gets milky from too much cranking? That would not happen without water.

Another issue with lots of cranking is oil dilution by gas. The gas goes past the rings and dilutes the oil.
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