Spring commissioning problem.

[Wisakedjack]

I had my Atomic 4 running like a champ for couple of years. However, this spring I've run into some issues. I did my usual spring routine: had clean carb brought from home, new impeller etc. The engine started on a first try and there was flow of water from exhaust, however the idle RPM was a bit high. I shut down the engine and went below to adjust throttle cable. I've noted bit of steam coming from couple of spark plugs, but at the time did not pay much attention to it. The engine would not start again for me. I tried to use some starter spray, but that did not help. I checked the spark from coil (good blue one) and did the thumb compression test at which point water gushed out of the spark plug hole. At this point I did probably the dumbest thing in all my years having the boat - I removed the cylinder head. There was a train of thought that I may see winter freeze damage. In retrospect I should have at least tried to drain water first. Obviously I got water all over the place and even spilling from the carb flame arrestor. What I did discover is a somewhat worn out gasket and lots of crud in narrow slots (see pictures below). So, the question is what shall I do now to get my engine back in working order? I assume water somehow got into the engine. Any advise on what could have caused that? The boat is on the hard now, so water was coming from hose via a t-connection. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

[Dave Neptune]

Winter freeze

W-jack, be sure and keep giving her a spin so she does not sieze.

The damage does look repairable BUT ONLY if you know how the water got in and I mean for sure. Look for cracks and at least pressure check the manifold.

Get the water out and get her soaking in some oil.

Dave Neptune

[Wisakedjack]

Dave, thanks for the advise. I will get some oil in the cylinders to soak in. I am still mystified how the water got there in first place. I have couple more questions that may be you could give me an advise on:

1. My boat is Catalina 30. I was feeding cooling water from a bucket in a cockpit (which is above engine). Since the engine started on first try I don't suppose water could get sucked into engine similar to when one cranks up engine with seacock open in the water. Right?

2. Now that I have head off is there anything I can do that engine would benefit from? Getting crud from cooling passages comes to mind first.

3. What do you suggest I try to do after soaking engine in oil for few days? I will obviously have to clean carb again. But other than that shall I just put head back and try again?

[ndutton]

. . . . . . at least pressure check the manifold.

+1
Oh Yeah

[Dave Neptune]

Did you winterize the engine? Take a shop wet vac down and suck out as much as you can.

Try to spin the engine with the starter AFTER sucking the water from under the oil in the pan AFTER vacuuming out the cylinders. Use the venerable MMO or WD-40 for soaking once dewatered.

If she is stuck IE the starter won't move her we'll go to plan B and even there we still need to know where the water came from.

First check the manifold after getting her dewatered most important.

Dave Neptune

[Wisakedjack]

Dave, thanks for the suggestions. I did winterize the engine. I will look for cracks while the head is off. I will remove water with shop vac and soak in oil. I will obviously change head gasket before putting head back. I am trying to find some info/links on how to check the manifold, but cant find good step by step instructions. Is this info in the MM manual by any chance? May be you could add a link how to do this?

I greatly appreciate your advise. This engine issue came as a complete surprise for me with just under 2 weeks until I need to splash the boat.

[Dave Neptune]

To pressure check just plug one end of the manifold where the water goes in or out and then get a "shrader-valve" adapted to the other with a pressure gage. Pump it up with a bicycle pump and see if she holds. And first just plug one end and blow into the other if you can fell the pressure dropping with your "mouth" it's a good bet the manifold is compromised.

If the engine will rotate "by hand" check the bores with the piston at the bottom of the stroke for any cracks. A crack or hole could still be in a cylinder below the top of the piston when it is down.

Use a magnifying glass to inspect where you can.

Dave Neptune

[Wisakedjack]

Thanks again Dave. This may be a really silly question... I will need to remove manifold from the engine to do the pressure test, right?

[Dave Neptune]

You can test in place.

Dave Neptune

[Wisakedjack]

I suspect I may know what I did wrong in first place. I put water into the hose going to the bucket to prime the water pump. I suspect I may have put too much, so water lift muffler may have been overfilled. So, chances are water backed to the engine from the manifold. Does this seem possible?

[sastanley]

Yes, that is a very likely scenario. If you pressure test the manifold and it comes out OK, you can probably assume the water lift filled up. If the manifold is no good, that could dump water in the cylinders too. Once the engine is running, the cylinder pressure 'lifts' the water out of the muffler and out the exhaust.

[Wisakedjack]

Here is an update on my engine problem. I did what Dave has suggested: soaked engine in oil and turned it over with the starter. The engine did not seize. I did not see any visible issues like cracks etc. Today I put cylinder head back on with new head gaskets. The engine did start! I did two oil changes since I could see water in the oil. But it is running! Its not running as smooth as last season, but I will worry about that once I get clean oil. Heading back tomorrow to run engine again and change oil if needed. While the engine cylinder head was off I tried to vacuum out cooling passage. Some crud came out, but what worked much better was gently shaking and letting crud fall out of the thermostat opening. I am attaching picture below that shows all the stuff that came out. I was really surprised the engine run well last season and did not have any overheating issues.

[Wisakedjack]

So, this past weekend I fired the engine again to get water out of oil. I did 4 oil changes total and every time I run the engine the oil turns milky. So, I suspect water keeps getting into oil. In a way it resembles Ron's issue in this thread:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11056

Today I did few more tests: 1) engine compression test showed 95-100 in all cylinders and 2) 'mouth' pressure test of block and manifold that Dave suggested. In the later test I did not feel obvious pressure drop, but I will retest again using pump, valve and gauge. But assuming pressure test comes back ok, what are the other possibilities? My water pump is Oberdorfer, which should not leak too much water into the engine based on posts that I've read. When the engine is running the flow is good from the back. However, the pump has not been serviced in 5 years. I only changed the impeller this spring. Is there anything else I could look at? Any additional tests I could do? Is the water pump a suspect? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Mo]

Not sure if you test the exhaust manifold or not. By the sounds of things you have enough water getting into the base pan to notice a leak the old fashioned way. I saw you had water in two cylinders initially. That was obviously the problem area if it's manifold related.

1. Remove the 3rd and 4th plugs.
2. Remove the front and rear rubber hoses off the exhaust manifold
3. Put your thumb over the rear hole exiting the manifold and hold tight to make a seal.
4. Blow into the front hole as you hold the seal on the aft one.
5. You may hear air coming from the spark plug hole, and it is indeed audible if there's a decent crack....if you hear that, the manifold is shot. At this point it doesn't matter which hole the air came from, there is a crack in the manifold.

Hope that helps.

[Wisakedjack]

Thanks Mo for the advise. I will try your test when I get back on the boat. I realized that when I did 'mouth' manifold test today I did not remove the spark plugs. Same with the block test. So, my test results were probably irrelevant. Silly of me.