#1
IP: 192.94.65.61
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Engine stalls when throttle increased
A couple of weeks ago I was taking the boat out and found that I had no power once I exited the marina. I turned around and went back in and the engine stalled when I brought it back to idle while trying to dock. I am pretty sure the lack of power was due to a fouled prop which I cured with a good bottom cleaning. I followed advice found here and cleaned and rebuilt the carb with the moyer kit. I also replaced all the fuel lines and added a fuel/water separator. Now the engine starts and will idle (after adjusting the idle screw about 1/2 turn in from the factory setting), but as soon as I give it some throttle it stalls out. I am assuming this means it is running lean? Since i replaced most of the fuel system I am also assuming I did something wrong and there is probably an air leak somewhere. Does the fact that it idles ok and doesn't die until the throttle is increased suggest a location for the airleak?
I am assuming an air leak resulting from my (attempted) repairs because before I took the carb off I never had a hint of a problem with the engine at higher rpms until after it sat for a month and the carb got gunked up. |
#2
IP: 71.168.125.108
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Try bleeding the main passage plug again. You may have stirred up some
crude which became lodged in the main jet. Regards Art |
#3
IP: 24.224.206.117
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some ideas
Does engine have the PCV kit installed. If so the mixture screw can be brought in some ... have seen that necessary on a couple of engines.
Also check the seal on the separator...ensure it's screwed on tight. Double check all clamps to ensure tight. Ensure the gasket tightening the carb onto the manifold is good and tight as well. Lastly, check timing.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#4
IP: 69.127.0.71
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Stalls when put in gear
Hi, Gabe -
Hope you've solved your issue. I'm adding to this thread as I have a similar sort of issue - and I assume the differential diagnosis of stalling under load may be the same. My A4 currently starts and (to me) sounds fine in neutral but when I go to put it into gear - forward or reverse - it promptly stalls. I thought it might be a reversing gear issue - But the reversing gear seems to be working okay: I can use my hand crank to manually turn over the motor without too much difficulty (with sparkplugs in, btw) - with the gearshift in neutral, the prop shaft doesn't turn - while when I push the gearshift into forward it goes into detente, and the propshaft does rotate. Sounded right to me. But again when I actually start the engine and put it in gear, it promptly quits. Today I rebuilt the carb, thinking it might be a clogged main jet, and in fact it now idles more smoothly. However, when I go to put it into gear, it still stalls. Earlier I checked compression with finger over the spark plug hole test - all 4 cylinders seemed fine. The engine (a '61 early model) was rebuilt by Don's shop in 2007, and I've used it lightly since. Key bit of recent history - I was having a problem with no spark (and followed and much appreciated input from this forum guiding me to eventually replace my coil, ignitor and fuel pump ... but that's another thread) and finally got spark and the engine starting. But in the process I both removed the distributor to change the ignitor, also had all the spark plug cables off. As I said, the engine idled fine afterwards, but that's when I started having the problem when engaging the reversing gear. So I'm thinking high on my list must be dumb things I did when reinstalling the above. I thought I'd timed the distributor to fire #1 at TDC, but ... And again I think I've correctly placed my spark plug cables (1,2,4,3 yes?) but ... I'm open to suggestions to systematically test these and/or other possibilities. Ideas? Thanks, Harris "Sahalja" City Island, NY |
#5
IP: 141.154.46.115
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Stall fix
Harris,
We experienced the same problem last year. Our problem and fix were simple. While changing plugs and wires, I mixed up wires 3 and 4. She idled like a kitten, but any load stalled her out. Hope that works for you. Lee |
#6
IP: 69.127.0.71
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Thanks, Lee - definitely will check it.
Harris |
#7
IP: 24.224.206.117
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Learned from mistake.
For you guys having no power in gear here's something I learned this year. Thumb compression method to rule out compression issue may be misleading....
While working on a fella's boat I relied on it to dx that we had adequate compression. Compression tester used later to tell us the problem was low compression. In the meantime he changed prop, carb, fooled around with gearbox, timing, ....allot of time wasted. Turned out the problem was low compression; Head gasket leak as well as valves not seating properly...combined they caused a problem. My thumb did pop off each cylinder with the thumb test.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#8
IP: 128.183.140.38
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Harris,
With the engine in neutral, can you twist the propshaft by hand? If not, you may have something fouled on the prop, or your stuffing box may be too tight.
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#9
IP: 69.127.0.71
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Yes, I can turn over the engine with the hand crank - in neutral, the prop shaft doesn't turn (of course), but also, in forward gear / detente, I can also turn it over with reasonable effort and the prop shaft does turn, so I'm assuming its not either a fouled prop (I also dove to check) or I'm thinking anything wrong with the reversing gear (although would appreciate input on this last point - is there an adjustment in the reversing gear that could be off and account for stalling? After reading the relevant chapter in Moyer's manual, it didn't seem likely.
thanks, Harris "Sahalja" City Island |
#10
IP: 192.94.65.61
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update
Thanks for the responses. I finally got back down to the boat yesterday. I double checked all the hose clamps, they were tight. I think found the problem. I was able to tighten the scavenger tube at the manifold fairly significantly. When I started up the engine ran ok at idle and at full throttle (pulling against the dock lines). It stumbles for a brief second while throttling up. As I increase the throttle rpms increase as expected until the throttle is about 1/3 open, and then the engine stumbles like it is going to stall out but then kicks right back in runs fine. Any idea what would cause this?
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#11
IP: 96.229.18.9
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Possibilities
Gabe, the "stumble" when advancing the throttle can be many things of which 3 are most likely. One of the likely ones is "you" advancing the throttle to fast and the A-4 carb has no acceleration pump to give that liil extra squirt of fuel to avoid stumbling~not real likely but possible. The other two are both fuel related first to rich (also rare) and this should be indicated by dark sooty plugs and the other is lean (far more likely) and the plugs will look whitish. The above is assumed that the timing is still OK as the timing being off can do the same. However if the timing was good and you have not moved the distributor the above should hold true.
Dave Neptune |
#12
IP: 206.125.176.5
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Gabe..an air leak can definitely cause an issue. Hopefully you've solved the initial problem!
I get a stumble on throttle up too..another suggestion I've received from the experts here is that sometimes a dirty idle jet can contribute, & it stumbles as the carb is moving off the idle jet to the main jet...I guess the theory is that as the idle jet is nearing its maximum threshold, the dirt starts affecting it just before the main jet takes over, but it will still idle satisfactorily. There are two tiny holes in the carb on either side of the main butterfly valve that are part of the idle jet system that get cruddy..carb cleaner isn't always enough & they require a little patience with a small wire & compressed air if you have it. As carb guru Dave Neptune has already mentioned, my most successful solution until I finally remove the carb for a proper cleaning is to try not to throttle up too fast..I've also sometimes pulled the choke out just a wee bit if I am worried about it stumbling all the way off at idle with moderate success as well.
__________________
-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 09-18-2012 at 09:25 AM. Reason: choke trick |
#13
IP: 192.94.65.61
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hmmm....it does seem like it is happening right when the main jet should start to take over. I just cleaned and rebuilt the carb, but maybe i missed something in the idle ports, or maybe I have a bunch of crap in my fuel tank and just gunked it up again. Timing was fine before and I haven't touched anything other than the fuel system. I'll check the plugs next and see if they suggest anything.
thanks |
#14
IP: 128.154.210.72
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Quote:
How was the timing set? To spec, or "power timed" for max RPM? I found I had this stumble when my idle jet was set too rich AND the timing wasn't advanced enough. Advancing the timing (but still short ofmax RPM) allowed me to set the idle jet to the proper mix (confirmed by oxygen sensor) and the stumble while throttling up went away.
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#15
IP: 192.94.65.61
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Quote:
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#16
IP: 71.118.13.238
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Fyi
Gabe, be aware that the idle adjustment is adjusting air not fuel, so out (more air) is lean and in is (less air) is rich.
Dave Neptune |
#17
IP: 192.94.65.61
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final update
Dave - you were correct. I pulled the plugs and they were badly fouled. I finally got to the bottom of it. When I reattached the carb I left the scavenger tube loose. In order to get it to idle with the air leak I had the idle mixture set rich. Once I closed off the air leak the mixture was way to rich and the plugs fouled causing the hesitation while throttling up. A new set of plugs and an idle mixture readjustment and the engine is running better than ever!
Thanks everyone who responded! |
#18
IP: 98.189.172.157
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Gabe.
Good to hear. My A4 had a snowballing issues until I started knocking one off at a time. Now it just works. Clean gas and clean oil, equals running A4. Solving the previous owners issues can take a while but your engine will thank you. John |
#19
IP: 165.89.114.113
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An update and call for suggestions
Hi Folks,
I started this thread "If spark plugs could talk" on the electrical board but probably should have started here. I am having a slightly different issue. In it's current state after the efforts below, my late model 1977 A4 runs well to high rev's in neutral. When loaded, she will go to 1/3 throttle with the RPM leveling out at that point. If I advance the throttle any further, she will sputter, backfire and stall. 1. Checked compression and all cylinders are at about 90 psi cold. 2. Changed oil and found it to be dirty but not water contaminated. 3. Changed out spark plugs gapped @ 0.03. 4. Replaced spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor. I have electronic ignition. 5. Treated cylinders with MMO for 30 minutes. 6. Checked spark and found to be good on all cylinders. 7. Checked gas for particulates and water from hose going to electric fuel pump. I have no filter/water separator before the pump. I am working on installing a Racor unit. Fuel seemed clean and water free. After all this, the motor starts right up without any complaints. I can run the throttle up to max rpm with no load. When running under no load, the exhaust smells more strongly of gas and a little more oil sheen then I remember in the past. When loaded she can handle up to 1/3 throttle or so but rpm maxes out. If I advance the throttle further, I see no increase in rpm the motor sputters, backfires and quits. I am now investigating fuel quality, blocked fuel tank vent pipe, weak fuel pump and carburetor issues. Thoughts? Thanks!
__________________
S/V SERVUS Tartan 30 Hull number 513 |
#20
IP: 72.69.36.126
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I'd (again) suggest ruling out a blockage in the exhaust hose, and ensure that the weights under the distributor are moving freely.
Don't fear the weights, they're just sitting there under the distributor plate waiting for you to check on them. |
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