Water Jacket Clean Out Project

[Borrowed Time]

Hi All! Been a prolific consumer of the wisdom provided in this forum for years now and figured you all might like to know how I conquered a nightmare.

For years I have eyed my water jacket cover with suspicion knowing that sooner or later I was going to have to deal with opening it up and cleaning out whatever nasty beasts were hiding in there. A recent pressure flush dislodged a bit of crud that caused me to put it at the top of the winter projects list. Attached is a picture showing the degree of corrosion of the bolt heads. Sure enough, they all twisted off an broke when I tried to remove them leaving me with 8 stubs with 2 or three threads exposed. I tried PB Blasting and grabbing with a vise grip but that seemed to yield nothing.

After a full weekend of scraping and cleaning out the solid block of crud, from the jacket, I had to come up with a way to get those bolts out of the holes. BTW, I found that a stiff wire about a foot long in a drill motor with a hook and a twist in the end will act like a roto rooter snake and free up a lot of gunk. After much chiseling, sucking with a shop vac, flushing and picking with a magnet got me a pile of crud out of there the size of a baseball, not including the fines that got washed away.

Ultimately it was the stubs that saved the day and I fashioned a jig using a simple piece of plate 1/4" thick 1" x 6" with several 5/16 holes drilled in it and several mild steel bolts that I drilled 1/8" and 3/16" holes all the way through the long axis and a 5/16" hole is then reemed (is that a word) in the bolt head about a 1/4" deep. That 5/16 hole allows the bolt head to rest on the block flange with the stub centered in the bolt head. The jig is held in place with a small C clamp and the jig bolt is seated on the stub with a few hammer taps. Once the 1/8" hole is drilled through the stub, I flipped the jig around to the 3/16" hole and drill the 3/16" hole through the stub. I is then a simple drill out of the remainder using a 1/4" drill and cleaning out the thread holes with a 5/16 tap.

I got 7 out of 8 almost perfect using this method and the 8th was just a bit sloppy. I set all of them in a bed of JW Weld after I greased the studs with wax. Then installed the plate on top of washers to keep the plate from being stuck to the block.

So what do you all think of this way of drilling out the stubs from the block?

Will post a few more pictures later.

[ndutton]

Well played. The block flange looks to be in great shape. Are you planning on changing the sideplate fastener system? I suggest the long drain pipe is a liability rather than an asset and now is a good time to address it.

[sastanley]

+1 what neil said. I would just put a 1/8" plug or maybe an 1/8" NPT pencil zinc...especially if RWC. There is another plug in the forward part of the block too..based one the thorough cleaning, I assume you've already found it too. From experience, a full length (2" pencil zinc) won't quite fit in the front..and may hit #4 in the aft one too..I just sawed them off a bit to an inch or so.

Also, +1 on the nice work on the side plate stub removal.

[romantic comedy]

Great work!!!

How did you get the drill centered in the jig bolts?

[Borrowed Time]

My water jacket story

Hi Neil and Shawn, I decided on SS studs rather than mild steel or grade 8 studs or bolts. I know there is disagreement on this board about it, but it seems like galvanic corrosion should be minimal. More importantly to me, is that now that this cover plate is accessible, I can see opening it up every few years keeping it de-gunked and any corrosion issues can be cleaned up at that time. As you both mentioned, I also am concerned about the 1/8" pipe in the aft drain port. The hole in the block is a mess and it leaks if not well sealed and tightened down hard, plus there is already a lot going on in that tight space, so the idea of removing it after the next flush is appealing. I particularly like Shawn's idea about a pencil zinc/plug and will have to look into that idea.

Romantic, I lined it up by eye and smacked it with a hammer on a center punch, and got it close enough for this job. The hole did not have to be in the exact center of the bolt, only close enough so that the ultimate hole size would not breech the side of the bolt. I did use a bench top drill press to drill the holes through the bolts. I locked the bolts in place on the plate and relied on the the drill press to keep the drill bit perpendicular to the flat surface the bolt head rested on while being drilled. The hole being perpendicular combined with the dimple in the bolt head for the stub to sit in finds the center of the guide and the stub sort of automatically, no precision spotting of a center punch is required. Attached is another view of the jig and the drilled out stub.

To update, I stopped by the boat around lunch today and backed all 8 studs out of the block. Thanks to the wax, they yielded albeit reluctantly, allowing me unobstructed access to the flange face and nice snug threads. Having the ability to remove the studs was important in my mind in case I need to swap them out, or remove a gasket or adhesive without having to detail around the studs.

[sastanley]

My 1/8" NPT, 6" long drain broke off in my hand when I first got the boat. The block end had been epoxied in place. - I "upsized" by drilling and tapping to 1/4" NPT to get a nice fresh set of threads. Full disclosure, I still have the 1/4" NPT drain pipe, but if I can ever get it out, I'll replace it with a zinc plug (I do have a zinc plug in the forward hole).

I also have SS studs with brass nuts & washers (I made my own before Moyer sold the kit with the cool allen head stud ends.) To secure my studs, I JB welded the studs into the block and let that cure before installing the plate. Your side plate mating surface on the block is in much better condition than mine was, and mine has been working great. I also had to deal with PO "fixes" that involved oversized bolts in the alternator support arm, and excessive corrosion from muck in the lower aft hole. Be sure to check out the upgraded side plate alternator arm support moyer sells too that spreads the load across the plate and two studs..:thumbsup:

I recommend coating both sides of the gasket with #3 Permatex ("Aviation Brand" with the brush) or some other higher-quality-than-silicone goop.

This is an old pic that has made the rounds on this forum before (and I obviously painted the SS studs), but it shows the double stud arm support and brass nuts and 1/4" drain pipe (which I plan to remove.)

[Borrowed Time]

Hi Shawn, Thanks for the advice and the pic of the aft drain hole with the 1/4" nipple. Like yours, my drain pipe broke off when I was setting up a flush system years ago. Cleaning up the threads without removal of the accessory drive was tough and I made a mess of the threads getting it done. I saw someone had posted this idea, (maybe you) and was considering doing the same because I would like a larger hole for gunk to flow out of during a flush, but was a bit concerned about how tight the access is already. Your picture shows that it should fit nicely, so I think I will make that modification.

Just about ready to seal it up and pressure test. Will update when I know that it holds air.

Thanks again Shawn!
Chris

[Borrowed Time]

Hi all!

Well the update is that the one threaded hole where I got sloppy, pulled out when I tried to torque it down. Not too surprising, but disappointing. After much pondering and a couple beers (strictly for medicinal purposes of course), I knocked off for the day before I committed to one of three paths: drill, tap and up-size that one stud to 3/8", install half of a MMI repair kit into that hole (I had 4 MMI repair kits on hand for this very purpose) or find another solution to retain the stud. Ultimately, I did not want one nut of the bunch to be oversized, so the up-size to a 3/8" stud was off the table. I also was concerned about the volume of SS a repair kit would require be installed inside the jacket. Since the hole was in fair condition and I had thread remnants keeping the stud in alignment, and the stud now spun in the hole albeit not freely, and I had access to the back side of the flange, I opted to minimize impact to the water flow in the space by setting a small 5/16 SS jamb nut behind the flange in JB Weld epoxy. I've seen pictures of blocks where a repair kit was the only way to go but didn't feel it was essential in this case.

So I cleaned the block and nut with acetone, got the nut into position and while rotating the stud, managed to get it to catch onto the stud threads. Once I had the nut in position, I folded up a paper towel and wedged it behind and around the nut thus holding the nut in place and providing backing to resist the epoxy application to follow. I then gingerly removed the stud, checked that the nut hadn't moved too much and flooded the hole in the block and into the nut with JB Weld. I then re-installed the now wax coated stud back into the hole forcing JB Weld into the voids but not allowing it to bond to the stud. I then snugged the nut against the back side of the flange by pulling it against another washer/nut on the outside of the flange thus maintaining alignment. I let that sit for an hour or so before I pulled the paper towel out and smoothed the epoxy around the nut, where I could reach, with my nitrile gloved fingers.

I figured the use of a jamb nut allows enough threads for a good grip and still allow maximum water flow around and behind it. I will find out later today if the stud comes out as planned or is now permanently installed.

BTW, here's my 2 cents on JB Weld simply by comparing the labels on the packages of their several versions, apparently their original formula when cured, withstand something like 500 degrees. Their fast cure version sets up in 10 to 20 minutes but is not as hard and will begin to breakdown at a much lower temperature. Their stick form has even less resistance to heat. So keep that in mind when selecting which product to use.

[roadnsky]

...I committed to one of three paths: drill, tap and up-size that one stud to 3/8", install half of a MMI repair kit into that hole or find another solution to retain the stud.
...I will find out later today if the stud comes out as planned or is now permanently installed.

Chris-
If this repair doesn't hold, I'd highly recommend using a 1/2 MMI stud kit.
I had a similar issue and it worked excellent for me.

Also, I'm a big proponent of using a plug for the drain holes rather than that 6" pipe nipple hanging out there just waiting to snap off.

[sastanley]

Nice..thanks for the pics Jerry.

Chris, if it is any consolation, I have two of the 8 studs oversized. The single hole alternator bracket wore that hole out and the PO oversized it as a solution, and the lower aft bolt hole was oblong too, so I tapped it to one size over...so if you look closely, you can see I am 6 & 2. I like your solution though.

[Borrowed Time]

Hi Jerry & Shawn,

Thanks for the pictures. Nice to see I am not the only one with this headache and how you and others have gotten over it.

As it turned out, I kicked my backside all day Sunday as I was fighting with getting a second stud/nut lined up. I had 4 of the MMI repair kits on hand and returned all 4 on Saturday certain I would not need them. Of course I discovered this only after I had the sealant all ready to go, with sticky gasket goo everywhere, the upper stud adjacent to cylinder #2 pulled out while I was tightening it. Long story short after several hours of disassembly, gently removing the gasket (by now its in 3 pieces), wiggling nuts in a tight space, with sticky goo covered fingers block, nuts & washers, I finally managed to get the stud locked down and the plate sealed and tightened down. I then spent another hour cleaning up the sticky mess. If only I had that kit I would have saved a bunch of time and effort and probably a better fix for the long haul.

So last night, after having allowed the sticky goo (Permatex Aviation) to cure for 24 hours or so, I did a pressure test using a bicycle pump and got it up to 40 PSI and then sprayed soapy water all over the side of the block, plate, studs, tee fitting etc and all were good, no leaks from the plate area. The pressure did bleed down after 10 minutes or so. Is that a bad thing? I've read that it should hold 20 psi for quite a while. Bad head gaskets, leaky manifold, or a simple leak at a hose fitting? I decided to slay one beast at a time and worry about the source of that leak later.

Regarding the drain pipe, since my threads in the aft hole were in poor shape, I went ahead and drilled out and tapped both the forward and aft drain holes and stuck 1/4" brass plugs in the holes. Having done all this, I decided I'd rather pull the alternator and put a fitting on when I want to flush the block/head then leave that delicate looking little pipe hanging out there. I'm considering using a 1/2" barb with a converter coupling down to 1/4" so I can readily connect it to a 1/2" fresh water or a discharge hose.

At last, I'm ready to begin putting it back together.

[sastanley]

Chris, we'll see how it goes..if you look closely at my pics, there are drips around the studs (especially aft lower)..I was able to gently torque them to get rid of the drips.

Sometimes, you may have to bite the bullet and pull it and re-do the gasket with a fresh one and also fresh goop (I also recommend #3 Aviation). I've also used Permatex's "hi-tack" but it is REAL sticky..not as forgiving as #3 or the #2 stuff in a tube.

I tend to keep +1 of all gaskets like this on hand..I add them to my "Moyer list" so that when I call Ken about every 6 months, I try to keep a mental list, and I scan my "engine spares box", and make a list and add an extra of carb flange, t-stat, side plate, exhaust, etc...anything I might randomly or regularly need to take apart. If I was doing a job like the sideplate, I'd order two, so if I screw it up I have one to fix it, but if I don't, I have a spare..then on my next Moyer order, I'd say, "Ken, toss in this $4 gasket too please, thanks." It is expensive to ship them individually.

[Borrowed Time]

Good advice, thanks Shawn. I actually had destroyed my backup gasket by the time I had discovered the problem with the second stud. Like you said, we'll see if it leaks when I start it up, probably this weekend. Once the water side is complete, I'll turn to the minor oil leak on the opposite side of the engine..

Any thoughts on pressure test of the water jacket?

[sastanley]

Neil is the expert on pressure testing, but I think it can be as simple as clamping a bike inner tube Schraeder valve over a fitting and pressurizing with a bike pump and accurate gauge. I bought a screw in style bike valve and with a couple pipe fittings will be ready to test when needed.

[ndutton]

Home Depot and Lowe's carry an inexpensive pressure test device in their plumbing departments that I've recommended before. You'll need a couple of plumbing parts to adapt it but it's an easy way to set up a pressure test.

I suggest testing the entire engine first. If it fails, make a second test of the manifold only. If the manifold passes, test the block without the water pump connected. That will help isolate the problem if one exists.

20 PSI is the popular test pressure on this forum but my opinion is it's excessive. This is supposed to be a non-destructive test, y'know? Considering a RWC A-4 operates at virtually zero PSI and a FWC at roughly 4 PSI, a test pressure of 5 PSI should be sufficient.