Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Owner Discussion Groups > Discussion Groups > Catalina

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 09-10-2010, 09:21 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,803
Thanks: 121
Thanked 152 Times in 128 Posts
Question

Interesting that both members here (preceding two posts) have the issue of rpm being limited by cooling ability. Most A4's rpm are limited by prop selection and hull configuration. Maybe we need to talk about cooling system design?
Reply With Quote
  #27   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 09-13-2010, 04:36 PM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update

Guys,

After changing the thermostat this weekend she is still running hot. At the dock at 1200 RPM she was running 190-200 deg. I tested the thermostat prior to installation and it was working properly. I also tested the old thermostat and it was opening on the high side of 190. I am getting water out of the exhaust so I know water is flowing. I believe I may have gotten some crud broken loose in the engine and want to perform a good flush on the engine with muradic acid. I am tired of loosing weekends and may just purchase the MM502 water pump to replace the original one that I currently have on the engine now. The water pump may just be tired and I know I will get a good flush if I had a strong pump on the engine. Any other ideas?

Chief
Reply With Quote
  #28   IP: 71.181.37.53
Old 09-13-2010, 05:03 PM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would get the moyer flushing kit and procedure. It is a bargain. I think
around seventy bucks.

It does a super job of cleaning out your cooling system systematically.

Regards

Art
Reply With Quote
  #29   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 09-14-2010, 10:07 AM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks Art, I will look into the Flushing Kit.
Reply With Quote
  #30   IP: 142.68.244.201
Old 09-14-2010, 07:33 PM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Here's my experience with the MMI flushing kit. I probably could have done a longer vinegar soak, although the engine is cooling efficiently anyway so the passages must be pretty clean. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2959
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #31   IP: 71.181.37.53
Old 09-15-2010, 08:44 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,773
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee Chief View Post
Thanks Art, I will look into the Flushing Kit.
I suggest using the deluted muriatic acid per Moyers instruction sheet.
If you are going to this much trouble, you want to be sure to clean it
out thoroughly the first time.

Art
Reply With Quote
  #32   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 09-21-2010, 04:16 PM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Angry Update

Well, we when down this weekend, started the engine and brought it up to op temp around 150-165 and started closing the by-pass. The temp was slowly rising so I completely closed the by-pass. She was still running hot @ 190-200 @ 1200 RPM. We must have clogged jackets in the engine. So I bought a MMI Flush Kit along with a new impeller, thermostat housing and gaskets. The old housing is badly detererated and may not be making contact with the top of the thermostat. I'm tired of loosing weekends on the dock.
Very frustrating, but we will get there.
This weekend I will start point to point and look at where the blockage may be. But it must be in the Block.

Chief
Reply With Quote
  #33   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 09-21-2010, 08:37 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,803
Thanks: 121
Thanked 152 Times in 128 Posts
Question

Have you inspected the water outlet fitting on the manifold for clear flow?
Reply With Quote
  #34   IP: 142.177.123.158
Old 09-21-2010, 08:39 PM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
And the raw water entry to the exhaust dry stack? But you mentioned in your original post that you were going to check all the hose connections for a blockage.
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #35   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 09-21-2010, 10:47 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,803
Thanks: 121
Thanked 152 Times in 128 Posts
Checking hose connections is not enough. The fittings must be removed and cleaned and a probe run into the casting. It is possible the manifold itself is blocked. I have cleaned some manifolds from engines that had been running that I couldn't believe would pass ANY water.
Reply With Quote
  #36   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 09-23-2010, 07:50 AM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Guys,
Thanks for the feedback. I intent to do a full strip down of the hoses and fittings this weekend. Last weekend we were getting water out of the exhaust, but it was infrequent with the by-pass closed. Which leads me to believe not enough water is flowing through the engine. This problem really started rearing it's ugly head when the surface temp of our water got to about 70 degress. Yesterday I recieved the flushing kit, impeller, gasket, new hose and a new thermostat housing. Wow is that what the inside of the housing is suppose to look like! Ours is completely corroded and rounded off on the inside. I will be changing everything out and see if it will make a difference. Then I will perform the flush once I confirm good flow to the T-fitting. Another thing is that my by-pass is an old gate valve that may have a bad washer in it and is not completely closing flow. I will inspect it and may replace it with the small shut off included in the flush kit.
I'll keep you advised.

Chief
Reply With Quote
  #37   IP: 64.20.183.220
Old 09-23-2010, 08:15 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boulder City, NV
Posts: 2,741
Thanks: 14
Thanked 182 Times in 132 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee Chief View Post
...Another thing is that my by-pass is an old gate valve that may have a bad washer in it and is not completely closing flow. I will inspect it and may replace it with the small shut off included in the flush kit.
I'll keep you advised.
Chief-
One more piece of unsolicited advice...
Gate Valves have no place on a boat. REPLACE it. (IMHO)
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
  #38   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 09-23-2010, 10:08 AM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
Chief, what jerry said. Hopefully the boat itself doesn't have any left either, but that was standard practice in C-30's back in the day. If there are any left, they need to come out on the next haul out. dbschulz and I are talking about that offline now. It was a few days work..probably one weekend if you went at it full on. I suggest backing plates 5200'd to the hull & marelon seacocks & thru-hulls fittings

How'd the bypass for the engine get built with a gate valve??
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #39   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 09-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ball Valve

Jerry & Shawn,
Thanks for the advice. I believe this is the only ball valve on the boat. Ken from MMI said that some people did this years ago, so it proably is shot. All the thru-hull valves are ball valves and are in great shape. I will change out this by-pass with a ball valve this weekend.
Thanks again,
Chief
Reply With Quote
  #40   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 10-18-2010, 10:36 AM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Talking Update and success!

Guys here is an update to hopefully a resolved issue.
I purchased a new MMI bypass kit to replace the old ball valve bypass on the engine and replaced all the hoses. The old hoses were dry rotting.
Then I removed the thermostat and checked it in boiling water. (just purchased) Then I poured a couple cups of Muratic Acid into the head then re-assembled the housing less the thermostat. Started the engine and put the inlet hose into the gallon jug of Muratic Acid. Ran the engine until the jug was empty and shut off the engine. Waited 20 mins then started the engine.
WOW! We captured what came out of the exhaust in a bucket. You couldn't believe the rainbow of colored crud coming out of the exhaust. And I never saw so much water come out of the exhaust. During the whole time the bypass was closed so all the water went through the engine. After running the engine for 10-15 min more, I opened the bypass to bring the engine temp up. She ran cool as a cucumber! I used a laser temp gun to check the head temp. Cylinders #1 & #2 stayed around 100-120 deg and #3 & #4 were around 130-140 deg. It never got hotter. I figured when under load the engine might warm up more, then I can close the bypass if needed. The water temp coming in is around 62 deg. I didn't have time to take her out yesterday for a sea trial. I will do this next time I get down there. Thank you for all your advice and MMI for stocking these parts.
Just one question: Is there any problem with an engine running too cold?

Chief
Reply With Quote
  #41   IP: 38.102.16.169
Old 10-18-2010, 11:07 AM
Administrator's Avatar
Administrator Administrator is online now
MMI Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chestertown, MD (Langford Creek)
Posts: 1,927
Thanks: 983
Thanked 193 Times in 96 Posts
Did you use the muriatic acid straight, or did you dilute it with water beforehand?

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #42   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 10-18-2010, 12:24 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
Chief,
Good news! To answer some of your questions:

Yes, running an engine too cold results in more internal deposits..like salt & stuff..you need the cooling water running thru the motor hot enough to keep deposits from forming.

I have a suggestion about the bypass...don't think of it as only open or closed. I have mine somewhere in the middle to keep an engine temp of 160-165. I think with it closed all the way, the engine simply runs too cold, but left open and the engine temp fluctuates quite a bit. If you adjust it while the engine is running you can see almost instant changes in the gauge reading.

I'll echo Bill's question..you should dilute the muratic acid, if I recall about 3:1 with water. Good thing you didn't leave it in for long!
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #43   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 10-18-2010, 02:02 PM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Acid

Bill & Stan,
With the speed the engine was overheating, I knew I had serious blockages.
So I did use it straight out of the bottle, but only for this time.
I hope I did not cause too much internal damage. All I know is the exhaust would only spurt out a little water every 5 seconds and now it has a heavy spurt every 5 seconds with a smaller one between. Water is flowing like a brand new engine. I'll have to cross my fingers!
Now I know the jackets are clean and will maintain them with the recommended maintenance. I plan on doing the power flush this Spring.
During the diagnosis of the overheating problem, I started installing the MMI alarm kit and snapped of the nipple for the oil pressure sensor. It came out with an easy-out, but I do not want to touch any more fittings until next year
Got to get a few more sails in this year.
I wouldn't recommend anyone using the acid straight but this was an extreme case. This motor sat idle with no maintenance for 4-5 years.
Thanks again for all the advice,

Chief
Reply With Quote
  #44   IP: 71.252.30.109
Old 10-18-2010, 08:39 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
Chief, If you had the original oil pressure nipple, those are prone to failure. If you got it out clean (with the easy out ), now all you need is a proper tap to clean the threads for a new pipe nipple (brass!!) - I had to do this with my stbd aft block drain two years ago, as the nipple was epoxied to the block There are lots of pics floating around here of that, I won't repeat them. Check out my "old boat, new owner thread.."
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #45   IP: 68.109.228.113
Old 10-19-2010, 10:06 AM
Seabee Chief's Avatar
Seabee Chief Seabee Chief is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southington, CT
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nipple

Thanks Shawn,
Will do.
Chief
Reply With Quote
  #46   IP: 38.102.16.169
Old 10-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Administrator's Avatar
Administrator Administrator is online now
MMI Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chestertown, MD (Langford Creek)
Posts: 1,927
Thanks: 983
Thanked 193 Times in 96 Posts
Quote:
...dilute the muriatic acid, if I recall about 3:1 with water.
This is probably an unnecessary addition, but it should be remembered that you always add the acid to the water, and not the other way around. Also, eye protection is just good sense when working with this stuff.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #47   IP: 71.191.250.44
Old 10-19-2010, 10:54 AM
keelcooler keelcooler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: McLean Va
Posts: 282
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Non diluted will degrade impellers and hoses.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Overheated on season's maiden voyage Sailwood Cooling System 3 07-15-2005 08:53 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2018 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved