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Old 07-23-2013, 05:27 PM
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Afourian Knowledge Base

All -

we have some fantastic expertise and experience on this forum, and opportunities to compare notes and experiences. Doubtless the best knowledge base on the A4 that exists. Thanks to MMI for hosting and listening.

But - every time some newbie has a concern, they ask the same questions and our MVPs patiently give the same answers. And when you want the most up to date opinion/fix on a particular issue, everyone goes through the same process of crawling over threads, some of which meander.

Unless I'm missing something critical here (always possible) aside from the few faqs, there is no consolidation of knowledge. Isn't it time there was an A4 wiki? AFourpedia! We could all start topics and edit pages. It could be very cool.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:27 PM
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I agree, but what will the guys do at night?
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romantic comedy View Post
I agree, but what will the guys do at night?
Uh... busted!
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:38 PM
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A4 wiki, afourpedia.

Afourmation?
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
We could all start topics and edit pages.
I think this is both the strength and weakness of what you're proposing.....

Bill
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:26 AM
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A4 Newby

I have inheritted a 1974 Pearson 30 which my brothers rebuilt the A4, sealed the freshwater intake and is now slowly loosing coolant... Due to the degradation of the cooling jackets by salt-water, he was required to insert helicoils when rebuilt. I suspect coolant is escaping through the exhaust. I am leery about keeping the A4 but a Universal Diesel upgrade will cost more than I can presently afford. Any suggestions from the gallery???http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/im...es/redface.gif
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:39 AM
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Perform a manifold pressure test (use the forum's search feature to find the details) and if indicated, replace the manifold.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:53 AM
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Hmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonS View Post
...But - every time some newbie has a concern, they ask the same questions and our MVPs patiently give the same answers...
I guess we just got a perfect example?
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammckay View Post
I have inheritted a 1974 Pearson 30 which my brothers rebuilt the A4, sealed the freshwater intake and is now slowly loosing coolant... Due to the degradation of the cooling jackets by salt-water, he was required to insert helicoils when rebuilt. I suspect coolant is escaping through the exhaust. I am leery about keeping the A4 but a Universal Diesel upgrade will cost more than I can presently afford. Any suggestions from the gallery???http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/im...es/redface.gif
Nice boat, potentially nice engine. Diesel swapout is likely to be more trouble and much more expensive. Feedback from this forum is worth more than money. As they say, you've some to the right place' - *but* please post in new or relevant thread!
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Last edited by HalcyonS; 07-24-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
I guess we just got a perfect example?
yes, exactly!


" Quote:
We could all start topics and edit pages.

I think this is both the strength and weakness of what you're proposing.....

Bill "


Bill - and all -

The strength is that we can organise the knowledge squirrelled away on thousands of posts into a useful and efficient resource. MVPs will not have to do what Neil just did - again. Previous point about 'what will the guys do in the evenings?' notwithstanding - I hope they have better things to do than say the same thing a hundred times.

Wikis' do seem to work - tho I've never been on the admin side of one. So some admin guidance would be needed. But we know the general topics, they're obvious and already exist as discussion topics.

A centralised repository of diagrams (wiring etc) and testing routines would be very useful, ie, to test alternator voltage output - you need tools a, b, c. Then do p, q, r. You should see x,y, z.

Simply putting up a wiki framework and asking members to suggest sub-topics would nail the structure, after a few iterations. Occasional reorg may be necessary, or crosslinks. And then members can add and edit within the structure. This might eliminate weaknesses and hopefully minimise admin load.

Taking the wikipedia model, an editorial board composed of the likely suspects, could deliberate on structure and restructuring, to take some weight off admin.

Then, when a newbie asks question 27 for the x hundredth time, we simply refer them to the relevant Afourpedia entry. And we can all find stuff without asking which if the many threads has the currently definitive info.

I recognise the discussion board does serve a useful community a service - we don't want to lose this, but at this point, an awful lot is repetitive stuff too.
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Last edited by HalcyonS; 07-24-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:20 PM
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The problem as I see it is reaching a consensus on a particular issue or any issue for that manner. If members can edit an entry other than their own (the Wiki model), using the manifold pressure test I mentioned in another thread as an example, what happens when the original author says test @5 PSI, another edits to say 20 PSI, somebody else changes it to 10 PSI? Or what about the gift that keeps on giving, electronic ignition system guidelines and parameters? How many cooks in the kitchen on that one?
  • PCV system? Don't get me started.
  • Thermostat, no thermostat or after market thermostat? What temperature?
  • Fuel pump, mechanical or electric?
  • Alternator size and/or output voltage? Adjustable or fixed regulator?
  • Props? Whoa Nelly!
  • Hot sections, galvanized, black iron or stainless?
and so on . . . .
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
The problem as I see it is reaching a consensus on a particular issue or any issue for that manner.

and so on . . . .
And that's why we're a "forum".

I do agree 100% with Neil that it'd be nice to come to a conclusion on certain key "issues/resolutions" with our A4's.
A majority consensus? Judged/overseen by Bill?
Of course, some discussions will ALWAYS be ongoing. (PCV, Thermostat, Fuel Pump, etc)
But some can be agreed to agree.
The Coil/Resistor with EI comes to mind. (I'm in the camp that feels we've solved this)

One thing that might address HalcyonS main concern.
(That of answering questions over and over)
Perhaps a READ THIS FIRST thread for Newbies that points out the use of the search function for current or hot topics, the documents section, etc.
It might filter some of the repeat "mis-posts"?

In any event, the reason we come here and participate is because it keeps the knowledge juices flowing and I've yet to miss learning something new here at least once a week.
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Last edited by roadnsky; 07-24-2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:23 PM
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Maybe it's just me but I don't get annoyed seeing the same questions and answers for new members. Sometimes a fresh answer to a repeat question will have a tidbit or two of new information or a slightly different perspective. Plus, a personalized answer to a new member's question can be very welcoming.

I like keeping the conversations fresh and active. My 2˘.

On the other hand, any of you old gassers here post another picture of a galvanized hot section and I just might Chernobyl.
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Last edited by ndutton; 07-24-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:39 PM
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As a newb who benefited tremendously this season, I benefited from looking at old posts but felt free to ask questions, even if it was a covered topic.

This forums strength, beside the info and experienced members, is its friendly, welcoming, nature. It is obvious to all that you can jump in and ask anything.

If it ain't broke...

Chris
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
...Sometimes a fresh answer to a repeat question will have a tidbit or two of new information or a slightly different perspective. Plus, a personalized answer to a new member's question can be very welcoming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywalker View Post
As a newb who benefited tremendously this season, I benefited from looking at old posts but felt free to ask questions, even if it was a covered topic.

This forums strength, beside the info and experienced members, is its friendly, welcoming, nature. It is obvious to all that you can jump in and ask anything.

If it ain't broke...
Very good points.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:16 PM
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Thumbs up the beauty of a forum is the 'turnover' fresh topics stay on top!

What Neil & Chris said.

Jerry, I thought we had the coil issue resolved too, but I am right now back at square one with two coils that run for 60 minutes and die, with 2.2Ω of resistance in front of them and a reading of ~11.5-ish volts. - I am hoping I have solved that by finally doing what I should have done and buying a Moyer coil. I will however, keep the resistor in front of it and use the "R" terminal on the starter if necessary for starting.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:13 AM
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I understand Simon's thoughts too. Not too long ago the Drawings and Schematics category was introduced to make the resources available without searching through 60,000 posts to find one. A similar albeit different effort was made with the Best of the Best category. Sometimes I'll browse the posts there for an interesting read.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:51 AM
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on the buffalo and buggy whip

FWIW -

I agree with an edited end result. The advent of cheap digital photography, video feeds, and support for amateur mechanics has produced a wealth of information. We sort of have this already with the sticky posts on the top of sections. It could be much better.

Also, another list I lurk has the same problem but the subject is all the variants and systems on Sabre sail boats. It's very, very hard to get a good clear read on the same type of problems and the vast majority has nothing to do with my deck stepped, A4 powered boat.

I guess my point is, this is a natural progression of crowd sourced information. The software that runs this forum should know the problem we are discussing. I wonder if they have a solution?

Lastly, it's clear the days of paper are going the way of the buffalo and buggy whip. The last 5 years has been an amazing transformation. The next 5 will be stunning.

Regards
Tim
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:01 PM
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All points well taken. By their generosity, folks like Jerry and Neil (and others) keep the forum a happy place. And yes, as Neil says, there are some issues that appear to be constant sources of "discussion'. But, its also clear that some effort to organise solid data would help everyone. So I ask myself what is the goal? (apart from satisying my inner librarian).

Most people find their way here asking 'how do I...?' or 'why doesn't my 'x' do 'y'... When I have a problem, I want to know how to fix it, as efficiently as possible - and then maybe discuss surprises, share what I've learned, products, tools, procedures...

Like any community, we have newbs and seasoned experts - and people in the middle like me. We should make it easy for newbs to enter, not just in the sense of welcome, but in the sense of coming up to speed

This would help the forum because confusion over basic processes and terminology would be less likely to happen.

So, beginning with what we've got, at least, couldn't we:

Expand the FAQs, ie: Establish an organised collection of standard procedures, ie how to overhaul a carb, how to set timing, winterising instructions, how to find then fix a stuck valve, how to clean fuel tank/lines, etc, etc, etc...

Organise drawings

I don't have a habit of looking at 'best of', maybe I should, or maybe its time to take whats there and organise it into the above.

Make a distinction between issues that are 'settled' at least until the next anomalous results come up, and contentious issues in active discussion. For each of Neil's nightmare topics, there are 10 that are settled.

A wiki structure might help?
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonS View Post
For each of Neil's nightmare topics, there are 10 that are settled.
How many nightmare topics do I have??
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:50 PM
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Other than being legally required to honor copyrights and trademarks (both Westerbeke's and Moyer Marine's), folks are free to do as they wish with a wiki. At present, we have no plans to pursue this approach.

Bill
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:25 PM
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Simon mentioned the FAQ section on the home page. That's a great place to find universally accepted info for newbies and old gassers alike.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:14 AM
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Newbie Sticky

On a similar forum I subscribe to (TDIclub.com) a sticky was created that simply contained links to what were generally accepted as the most helpful and conclusive threads for common questions. Newbies were urged to go there first for any questions and if they had a funny quirk, new idea... they were encouraged to start a new post. Additionally, a sticky was kept just to keep links for useful how-to's.

As a newbie to this site it has been invaluable, especially given that the symptoms I've experienced are caused by several malfunctions and they were difficult to sort out. Posting was very helpful to discover the true problems and find solutions when the symptoms were not cut and dry.

TLDR: Create a sticky with links for How to's and common problem threads. Posting is reserved for novel issues.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:13 PM
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"TLDR: Create a sticky with links for How to's and common problem threads. Posting is reserved for novel issues. "

good compromise

I notice the 'aftermarket kits and accessories' section is pretty dormant - 3 posts in a year? Maybe it could change to a customisations thread, with stickies with topics like cooling improvements, oil filtration, all the usual - and not so usual, projects?
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:24 PM
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Case in point (no pun intended)

I think I need a how-to on adjusting timing. I haven't done it before. I'm crawling about the forum, using the search function, looking at the faq/tech tips. Can't find it, though I know it must be there.

The Tech Tips are difficult to survey, as they're mostly organised by date, and you can't search them. If you don't already know whats there, you'll have to work hard to find it.

I think we can do better.

S
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