Coil input information

[roadnsky]

...I may be calling Ken for the proven 55A alternator in a few days.

Not rubbing salt in the wound, but...
it's sure worked well for a lot of us thus far.

[ndutton]

I'm feelin' a big nag comin' on

In contrast to the informative considerations Hanley mentioned regarding external and adjustable regulation, my alternator has one wire, one. It's a big one but short (that's what I tell my . . . uh, nevermind). It goes from the alternator output to the starter post where the cable from the battery switch common terminal connects. Es todo, finito, done, world without end, Amen.

[roadnsky]

In contrast to the informative considerations Hanley mentioned regarding external and adjustable regulation, my alternator has one wire, one. It's a big one but short (that's what I tell my . . . uh, nevermind). It goes from the alternator output to the starter post where the cable from the battery switch common terminal connects. Es todo, finito, done, world without end, Amen.

Lo mismo! (I'm the same)
(The ALT wire to starter. NOT the... other THING!)

[hanleyclifford]

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5729 This costs $25. (post#40)

[hanleyclifford]

Seems like Neil and I have to have this discussion kinda regular. At $230 the 55 amp internally regulated alternator is a nice item until it isn't. Having all the "eggs in one basket", so to speak, means that problems will be difficult to diagnose and expensive to repair and will mean a trip to the alternator shop. Separate components on the other hand mean easier diagnosis and cheaper repair with the extra benefit of adjustability. Separate components will also lead one into a better understanding of the electrical system.

[ndutton]

It's clear now and has been in the past that Hanley is passionate in his preference of external adjustable regulators. One of the truly great things about this forum is the ability to present differing views.

I'm not going to repeat my differing view, done it many times before but I would like to know if anyone on the forum has experienced a failure that was not the result of operator error (battery switch follies come to mind) or other external factors with a single wire alternator, Moyer or otherwise. I know, Shawn's not thinking of a single wire but I have one and since failure of such was mentioned I'm interested in the number that have croaked.

So as not to disappoint though, here are my snarky remarks:
If Shawn's experience happened to me the only interest I'd have in my external regulator is how many times I could skip it across the water like a flat rock. As I like to measure things I'd rate it for number of skips, distance and style.

and then,

Separate components will also lead one into a better understanding of the electrical system.

Really?

[smosher]

I have the 55 amp alt and I kept the moto 35 amp alt as a spare. I would think that if the alt is defective then the output voltage would be different than the 14 or so volts I get at the battery. In that case I would replace the alt with the original. How long can that take maybe 1/2 to 1 hr.

If I was to goto an ext regulated alt, I would opt for one with 3 stage charging, but I don't run my engine enough to fully charge the batteries. My electrical needs are small, basic instruments, radio's, chart plotter and a ah 3000 auto pilot. I have a grp 29 energizer battery as my house batt, the last one lasted 6 years. I'm ok with that.

I saw the biggest improvement in my system when I replaced all of the primary wire and grounds.

Steve

[hanleyclifford]

So as not to disappoint though, here are my snarky remarks:
If Shawn's experience happened to me the only interest I'd have in my external regulator is how many times I could skip it across the water like a flat rock. As I like to measure things I'd rate it for number of skips, distance and style.

and then,

Really?

Thank you for not disappointing us, Neil and BTW skipping flat stuff accross the water is mainly an East Coast skill - we will have to have it out one day, skip for skip

[sastanley]

Hanley...the measurement was taken right at the output post on the alternator, and using the big shiny Moyer t-stat housing nuts as ground since that is one area of the motor that is not painted. I used that for ground for all my measurements. Incidentally, I am not 100% sold on these stupid little resistors. I don't recall much of a drop in voltage behind this new 0.8ohm resistor I installed yesterday. When I measure the bus bar in the engine "room" (still powered by my 34 year old purple wire from the ignition switch) I do see a drop in voltage of about 0.9volts. The bus bar was reading something like 14.8v when the alternator was spitting out 15.7v.

For the short time I had the engine running with the alternator attached yesterday, it had pumped the batteries up to 14.3 volts! Even with the alternator belt removed, I started it again and said "***?" when I measured the voltage at the bus bar and still saw over 14 volts, and realized I just needed to wait for the batteries to come back down a bit.

All this has been a little unnerving, just glad I was safely tied to a pier and not out in the middle of some tight channel like the week before.

When I get some time, I'll do some more fiddling and have a better diagnosis. Yesterday I had arranged a buddy to meet me so I could get a ride back to my vehicle, (thanks to Irene my old SUV 'boat/trash/utility vehicle' was crushed by a tree so I am out of extra cars to leave parked at the boat slip) so I didn't really have any time to test further..just getting the boat back to her slip was an accomplishment in itself.

I have another 35Amp alternator with the original 13.8v regulator I can use if necessary...my batteries might like a bit of a rest anyway after the abuse they've seen over the last 6 months.

Now..here is something I am interested in..what is the difference between the Motorola alternator I have (really only two wires, the exciter & the big charging cable, if you don't count the permanently attached red, black & field wires) and a 'one-wire' alternator? How does the regulator do the sensing and get 'excited' and all that?

edit - Kelly..sorry to have hijacked your thread so terribly.

[ndutton]

Now..here is something I am interested in..what is the difference between the Motorola alternator I have (really only two wires, the exciter & the big charging cable, if you don't count the permanently attached red, black & field wires) and a 'one-wire' alternator? How does the regulator do the sensing and get 'excited' and all that?

I felt exactly the same when I bought my single wire Delco. I could not believe that it could tell the difference between battery voltage and its own output with only the output wire attached. I searched the internet - nothing. I pulled the oval black cap on the back where the standard ignition and field terminals are supposed to be - and they were right there. I bought a mating plug for those terminals at NAPA to hook it up like a good old alternator should be.

Then, the night before installation I stopped myself and thought hey, what makes me think I know more than the guys who built this thing? Let's connect it as instructed (risking my man card by following instructions) and see how it goes. And it worked great!! I dunno how or why and I don't really care, it works and works well. The best reasoning in this process was accepting the manufacturer knew their product better than I did. Duh! Following the path I was headed I could have vaporized a brand new alternator at the speed of light.

The NAPA plug remains in my automotive tool box as a reminder that sometimes we don't know as much as we think we do.

BTW skipping flat stuff accross the water is mainly an East Coast skill - we will have to have it out one day, skip for skip

You're on Hanley! As long as we're skipping external regulators, I'm in!!

[smosher]

Shawn, If your voltage at the coil is 14 vdc and your using a 3.0 coil, then adding in the .8 ohm coil shoould drop over 2 volts. Where do you have the resistor installed? Have you checked the accuracy of the meter?

If the engine was running without the belt I would expect the battery voltage to be closer to 12 vs 14. 14 vdc seems more like a noload condition.

Its my understanding that the 1 wire alternators need more rpm to start outputting then one with an exicter. Once engaged it act's the same.

Steve

[sastanley]

Steve..after it was running for a minute, the battery voltage came right down. In addition to my multi-meter, which is where those particular readings came from, I also have a 'house' voltmeter in the 12v distribution panel in the boat, that I can activate to read either battery with a rocker switch. I switched it on to monitor the battery while I was running the motor off of it, and it was in the 12.2-12.3v range while under load and spinning the engine at 1,850 RPM.

I also have a voltmeter installed in the cockpit panel..it is not nearly as accurate (or precise in its hash marks) as the distro panel is, but it read just barely over 11 volts while the engine was running.

To answer your question, the resistor is in between the bus bar & the coil.

That 14v with no alt. only lasted a few moments after starting.

Thanks for the info on the alts..I have an entire spare alternator I can use for now (off of Catalina 30 hull #2276, silly guy went to a stinky diesel)

edit- here is a pic of the voltmeter in my 12v panel. it is the gauge to the left. Once the engine was loading the battery and the alt was disconnected, it was about 12.2v..right between the yellow & green range. I've never run the engine without the alternator before, so I had no idea how long the battery would hold up...as it turns out, quite a while!

[smosher]

Thats a nice panel, I like that. My setup in the P30 looks primitive in caparison.

[sastanley]

Steve, that panel was an ebay special. Neil actually alerted me to it last winter when I was building my chart table. I think it must have come out of something like a Catalina 42.

The original 12v panel is 6 switches & the P.O. had alligator clips and stuff soldered all over the back of it. Attached is a picture of the backside of the old panel, which is still in service, but I am slowly pulling off circuits one at a time.

Right now, in addition to the gauges, the 12v power plug & bilge pump switch, I only have the water pressure switch, VHF & aux light switches hooked up. The 'aux light panel' runs power over to the old panel (cabin lights/running lights) while I continue on the re-wiring of the rest of the boat.

The panel is definitely overkill..but the price was right. I don't even have a chartplotter, macerator, TV, refrigerator, electric head, radar, shower pumps or any of that nonsense, nor anything really to hook up to any of the seven "aux" switches that are available...

[roadnsky]

I have the 55 amp alt and I kept the moto 35 amp alt as a spare.

I saw the biggest improvement in my system when I replaced all of the primary wire and grounds.

Like Steve, I have the 55A and kept the 35 as a spare.
The 55 has performed so well that I decided to pass it on to another forum mate so it wasn't wasting away in the spare's locker.

I also did a major re-wire and just like Steve, saw the biggest gains there.


Oh yeah...
One of the first things I learned from my Dad was how to properly skip a stone!