#26
IP: 174.195.218.31
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Hi all, and thanks for your continued interest. We will solve this!!
I did take note of engine rotation and verified clockwise rotor spin. Ive tried the wires everywhere. It coughs a tiny bit on the NE tower. But that makes no sense at all to the timing. What about broken electronic ignition in such a way that its off? Seems unlikely. I imagine its go or no go. The magnet only goes in one way right? Im not sure of the mechanics of those parts. I know points and condensors...lol. 3 days on the road then im back to it and trying all your suggestions again. Is there a way to verify tdc with a volt meter on those things? |
#27
IP: 128.148.232.7
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Regarding your question about checking timing, here is a section of MMI's installation instructions for 'Ignitor' electronic ignition kits. The second paragraph seems most relevant.
Hope this helps. Jack. ----- “INITIAL START-UP" "If the distributor was not removed, or if it was reinstalled in the same orientation as it was before installation of the Ignitor, the engine should start and be very close to proper timing. It is recommended however, that the timing be fine tuned under power as described in the left column on page one." "In the event that the timing was inadvertently disturbed during installation: (1) set the engine to number one top dead center, (2) reinsert distributor with the rotor pointing directly away from the block (late model), or toward the near corner of the oil filling lid (early models), and (3) use a 12 volt timing light across the positive and negative terminals of the coil to find the place where the ignitor opens the primary circuit - in the same way as when using points and condenser.” |
#28
IP: 70.185.132.167
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Quote:
You also stated in another post the choke is closing all the way. If all the information in this thread is correct there are only two reasons why the engine will not start: The timing is incorrect or you have been no start cranking with the raw water valve open and as a result there is water in the cylinders. ex TRUE GRIT |
#29
IP: 137.103.82.227
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I still think we might be missing something on the timeline.
The engine ran. It was shut down. <SOME STUFF HAPPENED> It won't run. Can you tell us EXACTLY what "some stuff" is? Thanks! |
#30
IP: 174.195.218.31
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Heres is a more detailed timeline to the best of my recollection:
-Engine ran but had quit then restarted half hour later. (Led me to order coil). Noted a pin leak on water jacket cover. -Removed side cover, ordered new gasket. -Fought a stripped screw hole. -Friend taps block and finishes side plate. Plug wires came off at some point. Put back on by ref to pics he took. He cant start it. -Some time passes 2 weeks maybe. -I go down to see plate job, engine doesn't run. -I figure some crap in the carb and order carb gaskets. Remove clean and reinstall carbs. -trouble shoot as discussed in this thread. I have the through valve closed and believe I am of the standpipe variety. Also as I found out about this through valve thing I removed all the plugs and cranked it in case something had happened along the way, no water in cylinders. Thanks for the EI info. Maybe on ei rotor position DOES matter for positioning of the magnet? Even though I think its on tdc right now..though its not pointing away from block?? Jazz Last edited by Jazzydaze; 02-21-2020 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Addition |
#31
IP: 24.152.132.140
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__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 02-21-2020 at 07:07 PM. |
#32
IP: 174.195.218.31
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Ahh good to know! I thought it was standpipe! Anyway the valve has been closed the whole time as far as I know. I did turnel it over with no plugs in it w no issues as far as water in the cylinders.
So the valve in #4 thats visible through the spark plug hole. Is it true that when it begins to lift #1 is tdc? Im working in this assumption so if its not true its a good place to retrace. Wish I was at the boat. Jazz |
#33
IP: 174.195.218.31
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On a side note...wish you all were here pondering with me! On me for all your help.
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#34
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Quote:
No valves are open at TDC and no valves are open during the half turn of the crankshaft leading up to TDC. If you're watching valves through the spark plug hole as you turn the crankshaft (counter clockwise facing the flywheel) you must determine which valve you're watching, intake or exhaust. After the intake valve closes, the next time the piston reaches the top of the cylinder is TDC for that cylinder. There's a much easier way though: http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...06&postcount=1
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 02-21-2020 at 07:59 PM. |
#35
IP: 174.195.218.31
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Doh...what I was understanding from my reading was that 1 and 4 operated together. One on an intake stroke the other on a exhaust. So 4 on exhaust would put 1 on compression...Anyway..compression testing kit will be home waiting for me. It should be a no brainer then. Watch the needle go up..done. right? Im doubting all my knowledge at this point..not that theres much...lol
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#36
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Quote:
Each time the piston moves up it is on a particular stroke but also each time it moves down:
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 02-21-2020 at 11:20 PM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post: | ||
Ando (02-25-2020) |
#37
IP: 174.216.13.133
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Jazzy daze
Where are you and you’re boat located?
__________________
Mark C30 "Kismet" |
#38
IP: 174.195.218.31
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Gig Harbor! Yeah..compression test kit on the way. No more peering in holes! It just has to be the timing. I just cant figure for the life of me how it went off.
Jazz |
#39
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Careful there, no jumping to conclusions. We don't know anything yet. The ether and spark tests suggest it may be timing but nothing is confirmed. It will be soon though.
Please provide a picture of the top of the engine as it sits right now showing all four spark plugs, their wires and the distributor.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#40
IP: 137.103.82.227
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Quote:
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#41
IP: 73.59.95.151
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Jazzy daze
I sent you a PM. Let me know if I can help.
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Mark C30 "Kismet" |
#42
IP: 155.186.124.219
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The switching of the points, the switching of the Pertronix and the switching of the Indigo ignitions all happen in the same reference for the distributor. These positions are fixed at the proper timing point of the distributor. The distributor is a separate part unto itself and must be placed "in time" with the compression stroke.
If the distributor has ever been removed it is likely that it is not set as it was at the factory for production purposes IE make the rotor point somewhere and make all the same for the speed of production. After the distributor has been removed it is likely that when replaced it is not pointing in the same direction as before while #1is at TDC. Wherever the rotor is pointing when the #1 is at TDC is where the #1 wire goes on the cap and the rest of the wires follow in the firing sequence and rotation order. There are as many ways to drop in the distributor as there are teeth on the drive gear and each one works just fine. I think your entire sequence is off. Confirm #1 TDC then start your plug wire wiring in order. She'll fire up and purr! Dave Neptune |
#43
IP: 174.196.193.133
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Thanks Dave. I totally get that. Wasnt sure if EI had a thing of its own. I cant wait to hear it go after all this! Atleast its a nice thorough thread for next guy...lol. I hope Im not bendimg all your ears to much. And I feel you all rooting for Ragamuffin
Jazz |
#44
IP: 216.145.121.132
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Quote:
That pic will help us help you verify. Also, I have not read anything in the thread that confirms you have #1 at TDC yet. Attached is a PROCEDURE for accomplishing that. (Neil's "Spark-Plug-Party-Balloon" will make it even easier) Finally, here is the procedure for your compression test: COMPRESSION TEST PROCEDURE Test the engine while its warm, as you'll get different readings hot and cold. Your readings will be higher on a hot engine, but if it passes cold it will pass hot. 1. Make sure water intake is shut off so you don't fill exhaust system with water which will then enter the cylinders. (You're not actually going to run the engine during the test so it won't need any cooling) 2. Remove spark plugs. Cover holes with a rag. 3. Remove coil wire, disable fuel pump if electric (remove fuse or disconnect wire) 4. Open throttle to wide open and leave it there. 5. Be sure choke is OPEN completely 6. Screw tester into spark plug hole #1 and crank engine with starter for a few seconds. You will see the pressure on the gauge go up in steps and max out. When it tops out, that's the reading. (about 3-5 sec) 7. Repeat on the other cylinders. If the readings are low or vary more than about 10% from one cylinder to the next, add a tablespoon of motor oil through the spark plug hole of the low cylinder(s). If this increases the pressure significantly, it indicates worn rings or valve guides (the oil acts to seal the gap somewhat). If it doesn't change it's more likely a valve that's sticking or not closing all the way.
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-Jerry 'Lone Ranger' 1978 RANGER 30 |
#45
IP: 66.235.14.138
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I agree, either an extreme timing issue or water intrusion.
Regarding that timing, when I first tried starting the A4 I rebuilt, nothing happened. Then I tried the ether down the carb trick, it sputtered and backfired. Upon investigation I found the distributor was a full 90 degrees off. The moral of this story is that if the ether isn't doing a thing, no sputtering and no signs of fuel ignition whatsoever, your timing would have to be WAY off if this is the issue.
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"A ship in the harbor is safe ... but that's not what ships are built for. |
#46
IP: 174.216.19.149
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/ef0vzrwxmo...51838.mp4?dl=0
Purring like a kittykat! Whooooot! So had TDC correct..compression is good. The dist was turned about 20 degrees off of the sweet spot. I for the life of me cannot understand how that happened and really wasnt looking for that.. I took distributor all apart AGAIN and noticed that the rotor was in the general vicinity of the #1 tower but wasnt right on. Loosened...turned it..win!!! Thank you all so much for your help and encouragement. You taught me tons! Now you may resume mocking my mechanical abilities..hahah. Hopefully this saga helps another! Jazz |
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jazzydaze For This Useful Post: | ||
Administrator (02-24-2020), AFisch (02-24-2020), Ando (02-25-2020), GregH (02-25-2020), Sam (02-25-2020) |
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