not starting after winter lay up

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

New engine to me last year, ran fine, winterized with antifreeze. Been trying to start this spring for a couple weeks. Engine turning over, but just cranks. Water pump working as water out exhaust. Drained carb. & got clean gas. However, when I take boat cover off, I don't smell gas, like I did last year each time I used boat. New plugs & wires. Put multimeter on pos. & neg. of coil, turned key - showed about 4 volts & decreasing. Electronic ignition & coil are quite old. How do I check coil & distributor cap. Any other ideas?

[Mo]

1..First off: Should not be smelling gas in the boat when you open it... that needs to be sorted out, the source found and corrected. That's your first job.
Check all filter connections and seals, all joints and connections for gas...and of course the carb. Find out where that smell is coming from and ensure that boat is vented from fumes. ENSURE shut off valve on fuel line is open position.
2. turn off the intake water valve until you get it running. Once running open it right away.
3. Check for spark.
4. Check that choke works full swing of operation...closed to start.
5. If that checks out and it still won't start... it's time to pull the plugs and have a look. If you see a droplet on the plug that's water..at this point you would clean and dry and see point #6 before you reinstall them. Nice and wet, smelling like gas...that's good. Dry means no gas.
6. While you have the plug out put your thumb over the hole and have someone turn over the engine...it's a quick indication of compression. Your thumb should be popped as compressed air lifts it off...that should happen and you hear the air. Puff.
7. OK, you get it started and open the water intake valve....there should be no change in engine, no miss etc, no stalling. If the engine stalls after you open the water intake you need to pull the plugs 1by1 and check them again for water...if there is water on them at that point then the high suspicion is an exhaust manifold rupture...not so rare in cold climates where antifreeze didn't make it into the chambers.

FYI: not a common problem but it does happen occasionally: there can be a "quasie" smell of gas in the boat if the diaphragm has ruptured on a mechanical fuel pump. To check this pull the dipstick and smell...if there's a hint of gas smell on that dipstick, the oil is thin, and may or may not be an increase in oil level...usually the oil level will become more evident as the condition progresses. Just something to check. It can also cause hard to start conditions, no start conditions, and starving for fuel issues.

[Easy Rider]

If you've being cranking it over for a couple of weeks and you're getting water out the exhaust I'd be checking the oil to see if you've being accidently getting some back flow of water into the crankcase. Keep the water intake shut off until it starts. See Mo's point #2. Very important.

[ndutton]

Ronsue, the coil post marked negative is not a ground. It's where the wire from the distributor attaches that switches the coil on and off about 20 times per second at idle and roughly 70 times per second at cruising speed. Voltage measurements using that post are not helpful in diagnoses.

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

Thanks for advice...will get back on it end of the week. (Had to clean carburetor & replace fuel line on lawn mower - isn't ethanol great! will now use non-ethanol in mower, just like Atomic 4) Just so you know, engine is in a 16' Dyer Glamour Girl on trailer, I am using water hose at intake strainer.

[Mo]

RE: water hose. You don't want to hook the hose up directly to the intake. Need to have the engine draw the water via the impeller and pump, not under pressure from the house. You may be pouring the hose into the strainer, that is OK, but not hooked directly to the engine.

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

Hi every one,
The raw water is going through strainer then through raw water pump on engine,
customer's boat is coming out of my shop tomorrow ,then our boat goes in
She is a 1959 Dyer Glamour Girl ,1969 A4. We got this boat as a bare hull about 6 or 7 yrs ago. got her in the water last summer and she ran great.
I am now thinking electronic ignition may be a place to start. motor rebuilt by Moyer but igniton seems very old. Opinions on electronic ignition?
I am a very good wooden boat builder, but a so so motor head,All the help is greatly appreciated

[Administrator]

If you send the serial number and at least a rough idea of when it was purchased to Don, he should be able to tell you about exactly what was done with the rebuild.

Bill

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

I bought the engine in spring of 2016, but didn't put in my boat until spring of 2017. Bought it from man in Marion Mass who had it in his sailboat in Maine. He had it rebuilt and then decided on a diesel. It had about 100 hours since rebuild when I got it, although not sure when he had it rebuilt. Serial# 176074

[Administrator]

I am now thinking electronic ignition may be a place to start. motor rebuilt by Moyer but ignition seems very old.

I spoke with Don about this engine. He is suspicious that this engine may not have been a Moyer Marine rebuild, since they have been putting Pertronix electronic ignitions in all of their exchange engines for around 20 years.

Bill

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

I guess I wasn't clear in my post, engine currently has Pertronix ignition. I am just wondering how old it is, and maybe needs replacing.

[Don Moyer]

According to the manufacturer, unless a Pertronix Ignitor has been abused in some way (mostly by leaving the ignition switch on for a long period of time), there's no reason to replace one on any particular time interval basis. Don

[tenders]

You should rule out a lot of other stuff before assuming the electronic ignition is bad. How's compression? Fuel pressure would be useful to know about (add the gauge, as discussed frequently here). Are you sure you've got the wires on the cap in the right order, 1-2-4-3? You asked about checking the cap - you just unscrew two screws and it lifts off. Rotor is right underneath. I'd replace both, but at the very least wipe down the inside of the cap with some alcohol.

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

Ok, replaced wires with Standard OE plus performance wires 3400 Universal 4cyl 7mm.,(ad yes, i did 1-2-4-3) and new plugs RJ12C Just tested spark. No spark at plugs. So, took coil wire and touched to bolt and got intermediate spark. Suggestions?

After just reading posts about testing coil - realize now, intermediate spark is weak...
so I'm thinking it is the coil.

[Ram41662]

Ronsue, I was having ignition problems too and suspected my electronic ignition was bad, but before I replaced it I contacted tech service at Pertronix and had them send me their trouble shooting guide. Here's the link to the document they sent me:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=10635

Oh, and after following their guide, I discovered my real problem was a smudge of crud on a wire end working as an insulator between my coil and the hall effect device. It works great now.

[CajunSpike]

I just bought a boat with a non running atomic 4 for $2000. Turns out besides a clogged up carburetor, it had a weak spark.

The cause of the weak spark was a that the points were badly misadjusted.

Points gap as way too far open for spark to build up enough to fire correctly.

New carb.
Adjusted points.

Motor runs sweet.

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

Who says miracles don't happen. Down loaded the tech guide for Pertronix from Ram41662 and read about checking to see if tach wire is grounding neg. terminal of coil . That's what was going on!
Last winter when I moved our tach (installed a depth sounder)
I must have crossed some wires, the neg wire to the coil was grounding the system. Removed that wire and our A4 fired up to her sweet, smooth self.
I just want to give out a great big THANK YOU !! The response we got was great and so helpful.
My wife Susan and I think we should play hooky tomorrow and go for a boat ride.

[Ram41662]

Glad I was of some use....now go have some fun!

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

So, while removing tach (cuz it never worked), I accidentally touched neg. wire to pos. wire and fried the 2 ground wires to oil & temp gauge. So they no longer work. Replaced with new gauges & wires, and still don't work. So what's next? sending units?

[Dave Neptune]

The gage leads are hot and not grounded. The ground is through the sendor.

What you need are fuses and a check of the ign wiring system.

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

Why are we working on this stuff hot? Accidents happen.

[Joe Miller]

check that sending unit matches the gauge, just a thought.

Joe

[joe_db]

Standard gauges are designed for 240-33 ohm sending units. 240 ohms is the low end of the range. It is entirely possible to have a 240 ohm sender, a 240 ohm gauge, and still be off. One example would be a 100 PSI sender on an 80 PSI gauge.
Another source of error can be a dual station sender with one gauge or vice versa.

[ronsue42c@gmail.com]

Replaced Faria guage with Faria guage - but maybe different sending unit?
Looking into that now...

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by Dave Neptune

The gage leads are hot and not grounded. The ground is through the sendor.
What you need are fuses and a check of the ign wiring system.
Dave Neptune

+1 on this.
The ground on the gauge is for lighting. It has nothing to do with the sending unit.
Can you read "12" volts at the gauges?

TRUE GRIT