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View Poll Results: What is the steady state temperature of your engine?
120 degrees or below 20 9.22%
130 degrees 12 5.53%
140 degrees 39 17.97%
150 degrees 17 7.83%
160 degrees 59 27.19%
170 degrees 29 13.36%
180 degrees or higher 41 18.89%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26   IP: 128.183.140.38
Old 06-20-2011, 06:16 PM
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I now have about 40 hrs on my Moyer-rebuilt short block, which I converted to fresh-water cooling using the Moyer kit. After starting, it quickly comes up to 180 deg and stays there over a wide range of rpms and load.

Last week, I spent 3 hrs at 2800 rpm motoring into an 18-20 kt headwind with 3-4 ft seas. Boat would labor up to 4.5 kts, then get slammed down to 2.5 kts by the next wave.

Temp stayed rock-steady at 180 the whole time.

With the boat in a slip, in neutral, at 750 rpm idle, it cools down to 165-170.
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  #27   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 06-20-2011, 07:57 PM
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Raw water cooled.

I run with no thermostat; my bi-pass valve is opened to 45 degree angle; the temp never rides above 130 degrees.

If I have to do the valves on this engine every 3 or 4 years I could care less. I hold my fingers on the head or the block and it is cool enough not to have to haul my fingers away....like it or not...that's a good thing.

I have had an atomic four for 4 years. There are a couple of guys around here (my club) that have been using them for 30 years....it is beyond me that guys run these engines for that long and don't have a clue. They come to me to fix them. What bothers me is listening to the Horse...t they come up with because they heard it from some supposed guru....where was he when you burnt up you engine!!! Burn up an engine and it is done...bottom line.

Another bottom line...The head gets water, the block gets water and is gets a muriatic acid flush every 3 or 4 years. Not rocket science... and never will be.

Edit 1 "around here" meaning our yacht club.
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  #28   IP: 72.224.159.217
Old 06-21-2011, 01:42 AM
gary randall gary randall is offline
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Way too cool

I have completed a rehab in which I removed the head, cleaned the passages the best I could and flushed it out.
The temperature gauge now reads a mere 115 degrees F., but the nut on the sensor near the thermostat housing is frozen and the connection seems a little glitchy.
So, I would like to get a secondary gauge to get the actual temperature. Where would be the best spot to attach the gauge? After reading Indigo's post about the variation in temperatures, I am wondering if there is a "sweet spot" on the engine that will give me a good optimum average.
Also, would an infrared thermometer work in this application?
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  #29   IP: 138.162.0.46
Old 06-21-2011, 12:20 PM
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180 with FWC

MERLION had her engine overhauled by MMI maybe 8 years ago and FWC was added at that time. We bought the boat 4 years ago, and she seems to run at a rock steady 180...there is some exhaust steam when fully warm. I'd like it more around 160, but the temp will drop to 140 at idle within a few minutes, so I assume its spot on.
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  #30   IP: 107.0.6.130
Old 06-23-2011, 07:20 PM
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hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
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Talking

You have a good system if it will hold "rock steady" at 180 while at cruising rpm for any time period with FWC. But the fact that you drop to 140 at idle tells you that the thermostat is not really a "180" unless your bypass loop is so good at cooling that it can bring you down to 140 even with the thermostat closed.
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  #31   IP: 76.244.163.213
Old 06-23-2011, 08:35 PM
anglosax anglosax is offline
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dont believe the gauge 2

I had the same senario as Dave N, the true block temp is read 2-3 minutes after turn off when the block has a chance to equalize the overall temp. We had 140 on the gauge and steam out the back.....
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  #32   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 06-25-2011, 10:19 AM
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Smile Your thoughts guys.

I just got back from the club. A member on this forum had a problem with his C&C 29, she had markedly reduced water discharge with lots of steam; Temp between 160 and 180. His son is visiting from 1000 miles away and they wanted to go out....so I went right down to see the problem.

1. Checked the water intake...clear.
2. Pulled the cover off the impeller to see if it was intact...it was fine.
3. Removed the thermostat...stuck closed.

Following the re-installation of the impeller and removal of the thermostat it had excellent discharge and temp 120-130 steady. No more steam. He avoided head gasket failure (perhaps more damage) because he looks following each start to ensure she is pumping water. The thermostat likely stuck closed last time out and stayed closed.

Recommendations to this owner. Engine is fine to use now and he will do this when his son goes back in a week or so.

1. Muriatic acid flush. I think she should have had better discharge even with the thermostat stuck.
2. Install by-valve and leave it at 45 degree angle. No thermostat. That works well here in Nova Scotia.
3. Install hotter running plugs which will reduce buildup in the combustion chamber.
4. Something else I noticed....leaned out his carb for him as it was running a bit rich...just noticed sheen in the water...nothing new and he knew he needed to ask me about it.

Not everyone will agree with this approach and I welcome any thoughts or opinions. Please know that I don't charge anyone for helping them out with these engines. Like many of us here on the forum, some people see a problem sorted out in half an hour and it gives them confidence. This gentleman now understands:

1. Notice the problem. The first and most important step.
2. Trouble shoot the problem. We did that.
3. Come up with a plan to correct.
4. Guard against recurrance.
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 06-25-2011 at 10:24 AM. Reason: corrections
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  #33   IP: 50.51.173.91
Old 06-25-2011, 04:04 PM
zellerj zellerj is offline
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My Lake Erie water cooled A4 runs at 210 F

I bought my 1982 Catalina 30 in 2000 from a guy that had it 12 years, and he said that it always ran at 210 with no issues. I've owned it for 11 years, checked the thermostat a number of times, acid flushed, put a larger shoe in the water pump, made sure there is plenty of flow out the back , and it still runs at 210. I put in a manual analog gauge and that read 210, so my gauge is working properly.

I have recently purchased an infrared thermometer and the top of the cylinder head reads from 150 to 180 - only very close to the spark plug will I see a reading of 210.

My question is - could the temp gauge be picking up a stream of hot water (sort of like a warm current) from the head so that the gauge does not measure the average block temperature?

Best,
Jim
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  #34   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 06-25-2011, 04:25 PM
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Mama mia, that's a spicy meat ball!

I have a few questions Jim,
  1. Checked the thermostat? How, stove top test? At what temp did it open?
  2. What condition is the inside of the thermostat housing, clean and sharp edges on the inside of the dome or corroded, eroded and rounded over?
  3. Raw water or fresh water cooled?
  4. Moyer bypass valve or not? If so, closed or not?
  5. Have you removed the side cover plate to physically look (and muck out) the water jacket and examine or replace the diverter cap?
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  #35   IP: 174.7.92.98
Old 06-27-2011, 01:17 AM
Philip_Warner Philip_Warner is offline
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Is over 190 too hot?

I'm new to this forum and I have a FWC system installed by the previous owner several years ago. I got a new temperature sender last season which says about 190-200 and I am concerned about possible overheating. Is there a way to verify the temperature or the coolant flow rate? Touching the outside of the thermostat its pretty hot; more than a brief touch and it would burn my fingers. If I squeeze the coolant tubes they're pretty soft, which suggests maybe there isn't much flow and there could be a blockage, but maybe that's normal. I checked the impeller, and its still got all the vanes and there's lots of seawater coming out with the exhaust, but its no more than lukewarm. Any suggestions on independently gauging the temperature or other remedies would be appreciated.
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  #36   IP: 38.102.16.112
Old 06-27-2011, 03:52 PM
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Hi, Philip, and welcome!

You'll get lots of responses from folks better informed than I, and lots of questions. Here's one for starters:

When you replaced the temperature sending unit, did you replace the gauge as well?

One thing for you to consider: Normal operating temps (say 140-180) would all be too hot to touch more than just briefly. 180 is scalding hot.

Bill
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  #37   IP: 161.213.49.1
Old 06-27-2011, 05:28 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Every Thing But The Thermostat

RWC engine

Rebuilt the water pump + a new impeller.
Added the Moyer bypass kit.
Acid flush.
Didn't mess with the thermostat since it's operation seemed normal.
Took the temp sending unit out and removed the lime crud that was coating it.
Cross plumbed the manifold so water entered the low end.
Hooked a long hose on the end of the manifold. Started the engine and revved it up. While standing in the cockpit I was able to shoot a stream of water onto the dock.

Once warmed up the engine runs 145-150 for any period of time at any throttle setting with a bump up to the high 150s when slowing down after a period of cruising as when entering the harbor.

I like it.

TRUE GRIT
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  #38   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-27-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quick question: should the temp sensor NOT be wrapped with Teflon tape when screwed into the block? I note that at least one of the sensors I installed recently (now I can't remember which one it was - I'll have to look at the paperwork- it was either a water temp or oil pressure sensor) expressly said not to use Teflon tape, because it needed to get a good ground with the engine.
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  #39   IP: 38.102.16.112
Old 06-27-2011, 05:44 PM
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Neil will correct me if I blew this, but the give-away is how many leads. If there's only one lead to the sensor (a hot one), then the block is the ground, and Teflon tape is a no-no. If there are two, then the ground is somewhere else, and Teflon tape would be ok.

Bill
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  #40   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-27-2011, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Neil will correct me if I blew this, but the give-away is how many leads. If there's only one lead to the sensor (a hot one), then the block is the ground, and Teflon tape is a no-no. If there are two, then the ground is somewhere else, and Teflon tape would be ok.

Bill
That's what I was thinking, too. But then (and I'll have to double-check this again), I think another sensor said to use Teflon tape. And they're all single-wire sensors.

There is just SO MUCH to know. This morning, I spent some time reading Nigel Calder's book - Jiminy Cricket, I feel like I need a four-year degree to learn and understand all that.
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  #41   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 06-27-2011, 06:33 PM
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No correction here

I've both heard and read repeatedly about not using teflon tape on single wire self grounding sensors. But, of course, that's not the end of the story.

In spite of instructions to the contrary, I've always used teflon tape in these installations without a single problem. Ever.
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  #42   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-27-2011, 06:38 PM
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Yeah, see, I figure that when you thread the thing in, the points of the thread will cut through the tape and make enough contact to get an electrical connection. The tape helps fill any tiny unevenness or gaps in between.

I know that when I have put Teflon tape on something, threaded it in and then pulled it back out, you can see where the tape has been cut through.

Unless of course you load it up with many wraps of tape, I suppose.
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  #43   IP: 69.74.36.200
Old 07-13-2011, 02:20 PM
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Engine heating up

After launching my catalina 30 for the season I noticed the engine is running hotter than it had last year. I was at about 160 last year and I am at 180 under load and back down to 150 in neutral. I am getting ok flow out the back but also some white smoke. I have not flushed the system in about 3 years so thought about giving that a try. Any other reasons the engine may be getting hot and white smoke? Also...suggestions for removing the impeller clip. Having trouble based on location. Thanks in advance!
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  #44   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 07-14-2011, 08:32 AM
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Brett, are you raw water cooled, or fresh water cooled?

If you can't get at the impeller, can you get at the two bolts that hold the pump on? Turns a small job into a slightly bigger one, but it's a pretty simple matter to pull the whole pump off - two bolts. Assuming you can get at that bottom bolt (which is why it's nice to have the extendo-bolt).
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  #45   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 07-14-2011, 08:50 AM
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I pull the impeller out with the shaft attached. It's much easier to deal with the clip on the bench.
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  #46   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 07-14-2011, 01:27 PM
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Brett,
What Neil said..My "backup" impeller is already installed on a new shaft, so it is a quick replacement, then I can deal with the other one not crammed down around the motor.

You need a pair of snap ring pliers. Moyer sells them here (pic below) or you can get them at most auto parts stores too.

Probably time for an acid flush if you haven't done one recently. If you want a less caustic approach, you can try a vinegar flush. This is a lot easier if you have a 3-way valve in your intake stream, but otherwise just plumb a hose from your water pump intake to a bucket..the water pump should suck out whatever recipe you mix in it.

Do you have a bypass valve installed between the side plate and the thermo housing? I found that helped stabilize my temps a little on my C-30 by forcing a little more water into the block...runs about 165 right now with no fluctuation at cruise speed..goes down to 145 or so at idle.

Oh..I just realized you are new around here...welcome! - let us know if our ramblings & questions don't make sense..sometimes we make assumptions..

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Last edited by sastanley; 07-14-2011 at 01:37 PM. Reason: add some more stuff
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  #47   IP: 98.248.12.160
Old 10-01-2011, 07:51 PM
tartansailboat tartansailboat is offline
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I just replaced my water pump, temp sender and gauge. A kindly forum member supplied a three spring Holley 140 deg tstat to me. Engine now climbs up to 145 deg rapidly, stays there rock steady just fine. I acid flush every two years or so but have never removed the two block drains to pressure flush the block but plenty of water out the exhaust. I had heard several years ago that with a RWC engine, you don't want to run much above 140 deg because of salt precipitation but Ken at MM parts indicates that 150 - 160 is OK providing you pressure and acid flush regularly. Personally I like a cooler running engine but have no good technical reason for that. Eleven years ago, the PO had removed the tstat completely with no valve in the bypass line, engine ran at much less than 140 deg, too cold for my liking.
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  #48   IP: 161.213.49.1
Old 03-08-2012, 12:02 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Reserve Cooling Capacity

Quote:
Originally Posted by tartansailboat View Post
Personally I like a cooler running engine but have no good technical reason for that.
I have a very good reason.
If you're running ~140 and a piece of crud suddenly blocks the water intake and the temp shoots up to ~190 you can still carry on - at least for a while at reduced speed.
If you're already running at ~190 and this happens you'er dead meat. Or dead in the water.

TRUE GRIT
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  #49   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 08-13-2012, 07:22 AM
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Hi John,

Mine runs cool and ...RWC no T-stat and by valve open about 1/2. This engine has not overheated in 5 years that the boat has been mine. Acid flush every second year. NGK XR4 plugs keep combustion chamber clean, no valve problems since fixing initial problems that came with the boat.

Have seen two cases of overheating with FWC systems this season alone. Both were fairly new systems and both had T-stat failure. They run around 180 degrees on a good day. I like like the idea of having some room come up.

I mentioned that they should talk to some of the guys on here with FWC that run with no T-stat. Didn't know enough about it to offer an informed opinion.
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The pessimist complains about the wind.
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The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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  #50   IP: 76.180.1.249
Old 08-13-2012, 08:55 AM
keithems keithems is offline
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maurice--

as u know like u i have a c&c 30

mine runs very cool, but i'm really not concerned.

it seems happy if u know what i mean...smooth, warm to the touch...more important..oil is warm

i wonder if ours run cool because they are not encased the way they are on other boats? i know from flying that if u open the cowl flap just a tad, the cyl head temp can easily go down by 20-30 degrees.

on my boat, i've removed most of the engine sheathing -- i think good access is paramount...plus, i wonder if my running in fresh lake water means again running 20 degrees cooler, since fresh water is a better cooling medium than salt.

finally, i run 10w40, a much thinner oil, which again should mean a cooler temp.

btw-- i use the dave neptune cooling mod..pretty much like you -- no t stat, manual bypass valve and also one where the cooling water exits the manifold...usually they're both open.

also, my block and head were hot tanked recently, and i was told the cooling passages are nice and clear. was also told my manifold didn't need it.
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