Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > General Maintenance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 04-29-2013, 10:57 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Smile Paragon 2:1 reduction gear lubrication.

Hi guys,
I had a member PM me re: lubrication of Paragon 2:1 reduction gear. I thought I read there was a lubrication port between the engine supply and the gear assembly. Can someone confirm this.

I have a 2:1 reduction gear out in the garage on my spare engine and there are no drain or fill plugs that I can see for gear oil. My C&C 30 doesn't have a reduction gear so I haven't dealt with it. Any better info than that much appreciated.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 04-29-2013, 11:16 PM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Mo - The 2:1 is fed by engine oil. There is a 1/4" NPT plug on the side for draining.
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 04-29-2013, 11:17 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Thanks Hanley...I didn't notice a plug on the one in my garage I have it tucked away in the back...will get a better look at it tomorrow. Hope you are a Bruins fan...I am!
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 04-29-2013 at 11:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 216.115.121.240
Old 04-29-2013, 11:22 PM
lat 64's Avatar
lat 64 lat 64 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 1,964
Thanks: 39
Thanked 240 Times in 157 Posts
Yes it is lubricated with the crankcase oil. I think it circulates by wishful thinking, but it works.

Mine has a drain plug (see attached pic)
Attached Images
 
__________________
Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1

"Since when is napping doing nothing?"
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 04-29-2013, 11:31 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Smile

OK...I was looking on the bell itself. Thanks Russ.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 70.51.75.10
Old 04-30-2013, 06:10 AM
Bingy Bingy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Harrow Ontario
Posts: 129
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks All

Due to it's location and the lowest point on drive chain is there a recommended service .

When I did the oil change on this boat and used the lowest point on engine Do I assume some oil came out of that gear also?
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 04-30-2013, 04:50 PM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking

When the engine oil is drained some oil (perhaps a pint) will remain in the 2:1. I suppose if you have the plug mounted low you could get a little more out. I don't.
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 108.48.211.208
Old 04-30-2013, 07:37 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
I wish I could jam a 2:1 in my C-30. I was really impressed with how smooth Ed's engine was when we were aboard with Russ last year. It would be nice to put on a 'bigger' prop, get the engine RPM up a few more hundred RPM, and not have the prop spinning at 2,200 RPM.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 04-30-2013, 08:38 PM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
I wish I could jam a 2:1 in my C-30. I was really impressed with how smooth Ed's engine was when we were aboard with Russ last year. It would be nice to put on a 'bigger' prop, get the engine RPM up a few more hundred RPM, and not have the prop spinning at 2,200 RPM.
What prevents you, Shawn?
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 108.48.211.208
Old 04-30-2013, 09:00 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
i think it is a space problem. I'd have to cut the floor open where you step down from the companionway steps..There is only about 6" of shaft between the coupling and the stuffing box...the stuffing box is already under the floor.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 05-01-2013, 05:10 AM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Smile

Shawn,
Don Moyer talks about a few things in the following thread. Might be more to it than we think. I've also heard of changes in the strut angle that would require a reduced prop size on some boats...haven't looked into it a whole lot.

http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/s...ragon#post1994
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 05-01-2013 at 05:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 206.125.176.5
Old 05-01-2013, 11:17 AM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Mo..excellent info thanks. one of the beauties of the A4 in a C-30 is that it fits...the settee heights are just high enough to fit the A4..most diesels are too tall, and later C-30's with diesels have humps in the cushions.

There might be 1.042" of clearance but I am not sure...might have to cut out the access board for that #1 spark plug.. The other tidbit of 5.5" of shaft length is the kicker..it is close & the 2:1 gear would probably bump into the back end of the galley cabinet.

Another problem would be getting a large enough prop while keeping an eye on tip clearance. I suppose a 12" diameter (stock on a C-30) could easily have an appropriate pitch number to match for 2:1. It would be interesting to know what the guys do that convert from an A4 to diesel..Do they move the strut back to get more hull clearance and swing a bigger prop? , or did they move the strut back on the boats with diesels installed later, blah blah, ...etc.etc., or are they running 12x12 props?

Just wishful thinking...always engineering something..in the meantime, it is back to real-world issues like getting the engine to run right and planning my deck painting strategy.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 216.115.121.240
Old 05-01-2013, 11:40 AM
lat 64's Avatar
lat 64 lat 64 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 1,964
Thanks: 39
Thanked 240 Times in 157 Posts
Shawn,
I think blade area has an effect here too. Got to go to work just now, but I look again at Gerr's Propellor Handbook this evening to check. The downside, of course, is drag while sailing.
__________________
Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1

"Since when is napping doing nothing?"
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 05-01-2013, 11:47 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Yeah Shawn, don't you have enough on your plate already??

The reason the A-4 fits in the space on the C-30 is the boat was designed with the A-4 in mind. That limited space, especially the height, was problematic when the market mood turned diesel. The only engines that fit were underpowered and the ones with enough power were too tall, hence the seat hump and forward riser extension. Repowers are the worst because nobody goes the extra mile of shaft log and strut relocation and realignment.

One local C-30 repowered with a 3 cylinder Universal M25 diesel has a 30 lb. teak cover box that replaces the aft dinette seat. It's easily 5" higher than the original seat top. I know the diesel snobs argue enhanced value but to me the interior hack job completely negates any assumed value enhancement.

Plus, it stinks, is noisy and will loosen your fillings. Some enhancement.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 75.54.23.214
Old 05-04-2013, 12:40 PM
izzy1554's Avatar
izzy1554 izzy1554 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Question sorry if I'm thread hacking but,

how hard is it to remove the reduction drive and convert it to direct drive? my friend bought an a4 with reduction and he needed direct.. is he screwed?
__________________
everything's an acid trip
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 05-04-2013, 06:23 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Hanley would know for sure. I think it's a matter of unbolting one and on with the other...his current shaft and prop design may be OK for a direct drive if that was what was removed.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 108.48.211.14
Old 05-04-2013, 11:01 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Izzy, the opposite applies from the link that Mo posted about Don Moyer's thoughts. The 2:1 output shaft is offset compared to the engine's output shaft. 1.xx" adjustment in shaft height, and a 5.5" longer shaft would be needed, etc.etc..
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 05-05-2013, 12:44 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy1554 View Post
how hard is it to remove the reduction drive and convert it to direct drive? my friend bought an a4 with reduction and he needed direct.. is he screwed?
IMO if you can find a way to use the reduction drive you should. It is always an advantage. If you want to change to direct you will need to acquire a different shaft as well as bearing and plates for the output. A different coupler will also be needed. The best way to make the switch is to find some one who wants the 2:1 and exchange the entire drum assembly and other parts so that you don't have to actually switch out the shaft which is a PIA.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 75.54.23.214
Old 05-05-2013, 03:02 PM
izzy1554's Avatar
izzy1554 izzy1554 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i remember him saying he was tight for space... he said he didn't have room for my waterlift muffler..

anyways thanks guys
__________________
everything's an acid trip
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2:1 Reduction Gear - swap for 1:1 Al Schober For Sale - Engines and Engine Parts 6 10-09-2012 03:48 PM
Four engines 1 reduction gear Larry P. Overhaul 1 05-14-2011 06:18 PM
Replacing gaskets on reversing gear and reduction gear housings phorvati Troubleshooting 1 10-06-2008 02:10 PM
Paragon Reversing Gear ratio John R Reversing Gear 4 03-01-2007 10:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved