Flooded boat!

[Marty Levenson]

We were out of the country for three weeks and returned to find the bilge pump had failed on our Tartan 27. The rain water was 3" above the sole!

There is water in the engine oil, and the water in the boat is quite oily. I need advice on the best course of action. I am thinking I'll change the oil, run the engine for a few minutes, and change the oil again. Is that a sound plan? Anything else? I don't see how water could make it to the cylinders, so not planning to put MMI in through the spark plug holes....or would that be advisable?

After pumping out the water, I now have a heater and dehumidifier running. Evaporation caused water to "rain" on everything, so anything that is absorbent is off the boat. Lots of cleaning ahead....any suggestions or tips for clean-up would be greatly appreciated.

I haven't been able to get to the bilge pump yet, so can't fully assess the cause. The battery is good, but the pump doesn't run on manual or auto. Planning to have two separate systems from now on, though this system has worked for 45 years. Also need to plug up the leaks: mostly aged out hatch boards, I believe, as the rain was intense and horizontal from the stern on and off for three weeks.

Thanks!

[Dave Neptune]

Marty, sorry to hear of the bad news.

Do get the water out of the oil and get the motor to start ASAP any way you can. If the water did not get high enough to get into the carb or fuel system drag a battery and jumpers down if you have to but do get the engine running and a couple of oil changes.

Get as much oil up as possible in the boat before using detergents as they will absorb the oil and soak into wood faster than the plain oil.

Dave Neptune

[Antibes]

When I first saw my boat on the hard, it had water almost to the settee cushions.

For the teak and mahogany I used teak cleaner and teak oil on it. The results were perfect. I impressed the yardworkers with my results

[thatch]

Marty, Certainly sorry to hear about the flooding. Here are a few of my thoughts about cleaning things up. If you have AC near the boat, compressed air and a hair dryer will do a good job at drying out the distributor and the starter. Oil absorbing pads may help to get rid of the migrating oil. Also, to get the most engine oil out, it is best to use the 3/4" pipe plug hole just under the carb, which is the lowest point in the pan. A slight "port list", (assumming it's a direct drive) will also help to make sure that the most amount of water goes to the bottom of the pan.
Tom

[Peter]

i had this exact problem - oil slick in cabin

i got all the water out of the boat - boat was on the hard and i was able to pump almost all the water out with the bilge pump as the oil floats.

if i had the chance to do it again i would try to scoop as much oil off the top of the water first. As the water level went down it left a film of oil on everything.

Engine - pumped it out with an oil extractor - put fresh oil in - ran it for about 15 minutes - changed oil - ran for 15 minutes - changed oil

the water had not come up o the carburetor in my case.

you may want to pull your starter if it is submersed and try to dry it out

peter

[Marty Levenson]

Many thanks for the replies and useful ideas.

Off to the boat today to change oil at least twice. I don't think the water got to the carb, but I'll see. If I can get her running today that will be a big relief!

Also putting in the new bilge pump today, so not sure if I'll get to do much sole cleaning. Have the use of an almost dead shop vac that I will use to try to get the last bit of gunk from the bilge.

[roadnsky]

Marty-
If you don't mind my asking...
How did the rain water get IN to the cabin?

[joe_db]

Good question. I wouldn't get that much water in a couple months if not longer.

Originally Posted by roadnsky

Marty-
If you don't mind my asking...
How did the rain water get IN to the cabin?

[Marty Levenson]

Good question indeed! Spent a half day figuring it out...after a lot of confusion in the rain.

Once I installed a new bilge pump I could see what happened. Whenever the pump runs water shoots into the cockpit up through the drains rather than down and out. Apparently, the cockpit drain is seriously plugged, and the bilge pump and cockpit drain share the same through hull (1.5"!).

So all the rain water that landed in the cockpit from three consecutive storms at the end of three rainy weeks (Vancouver), was draining into the bilge. The pump ran until it burned out. Battery, on shore power charger, was still strong.

So apparently for real insurance one needs not just parallel systems, but separate through-hulls as well!

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Marty Levenson

Good question indeed! Spent a half day figuring it out...after a lot of confusion in the rain.

Once I installed a new bilge pump I could see what happened. Whenever the pump runs water shoots into the cockpit up through the drains rather than down and out. Apparently, the cockpit drain is seriously plugged, and the bilge pump and cockpit drain share the same through hull (1.5"!).

So all the rain water that landed in the cockpit from three consecutive storms at the end of three rainy weeks (Vancouver), was draining into the bilge. The pump ran until it burned out. Battery, on shore power charger, was still strong.

So apparently for real insurance one needs not just parallel systems, but separate through-hulls as well!

Yeah, Oh Boy....I have separate exit thru hulls high on the topsides for 2 pumps. My third pump is the engine itself...close the engine intake thru hull valve and open the valve to the hose I have "T"d into the intake cooling. That's for dire emergencies and the engine running will take water from the bilge to cool the engine...I hope never to have to use either of them for a holed boat Marty, the thru hulls and hose are relatively inexpensive. I have a 3/4 inch inner diameter on a 1000 gph as my bilge. If you do something like that just make all your exit hosing the same size inner diameter. Example: If your pump has 1 inch hose ensure your thru hull is 1 inch as well. All the best there and I hope you get it sorted out without too much difficulty.

[alcodiesel]

Marty, sorry to read of extra work. I am sure you'd rather sail then work on her.

Thank you for the analysis: "Apparently, the cockpit drain is seriously plugged, and the bilge pump and cockpit drain share the same through hull."

[sailboatguy]

Marty - My son has an early Tartan 27 and we had a similar plumbing problem. The deck scuppers, icebox drain and bilge pump were plumbed into the two cockpit drains. When the bilge pump came on the cockpit and icebox filled with water! The cockpit thruhulls where filled with junk. The first step was to run a dedicated bilge pump hose out the transom.

[thatch]

For the Catalina-30 guys, I found that the two cockpit drains, which were similar to small shower drain covers, would become easilly blocked with palm branch "grass" that is common in my area. Removing these snap-in covers reduced the problem greatly.
Tom

[sastanley]

Tom, Same problem on my boat. About the ONLY thing the P.O. did correctly was to have a dedicated bilge pump thru-hull underneath the small transom overhang, between the rudder post and the engine exhaust.

Sorry for the bad luck Marty..at least you are figuring out ideas for remediation!

[CalebD]

Marty,

My sympathies. Been there, done that with my Tartan 27' 10+ years ago - due to excessive stuffing box leaking = same result: drained battery, water above cabin sole.

At least my electric bilge pump has it's own thru hull (just above water line) near where manual pump separate hose exits near stbd winch. I just needed new batteries and clean up.

For oil residues: Dawn dish detergent (or Canadian equivalent) works well to emulsify the oils.
For teak surfaces: Oxalyic acid powder (Barkeeper's Friend) works well.

I eventually replaced the diaphragm pump with a Rule centrifugal pump that was small enough to fit far down in the keel sump around the center board trunk. Something like 500gph rated which was a lot cheaper than any Jabsco diaphragm pump.

Nothing more time and money can't fix.
;-)

[Marty Levenson]

Spent Saturday unplugging the drain (coathanger), and changing the oil three times, running the engine in between changes. She fired right up, which was a relief. After the third change I ran her in gear a while at the dock, thinking that splashing good oil around the inside of the transmission might be a good idea.

I was amazed how bad even the second batch looked as I pumped it out. Thinking to be safe I might do a fourth oil change. Is that crazy?

Put some bilge cleaner in to hopefully dissolve the remainder of the oil.

Left a heater running and washed all cushion covers, bedding and clothing.

Next job is to clean the sole and a couple cupboards that got oily. Then on to replumbing the drains. Thinking I might reroute the port cockpit drain to the smaller port through hull.

Sheesh!

[Peter]

Marty,

Great news - nice feeling when she fired up eh?

I kept changing until the oil stopped being milky/frothy. Sorry, I forgot to mention that I used really cheap oil while doing all of this.

Bilge cleaning - I used Dawn, warm water, and a big scrub brush. I used my oil extractor to pump the oily soapy water out. Several wash/rinse cycles got it pretty clean. I had a 5 gallon pail so I could do several washes at a time. The folks at my local waste disposal site started to think I was crazy, showing up with so many pails of oily water. Fortunately, they take it at no cost

One thing I missed was the fact that the inside of my bilge pump hoses got coated with oil. I was lucky and noticed this after a single stroke on the pump so very little oil got in the water - I was launched by this time. Rather than fuss around cleaning them I just replaced them and took the bilge pump apart and cleaned it. They were pretty old anyways and not terribly expensive to replace.

Best,
Peter

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by Marty Levenson

Thinking I might reroute the port cockpit drain to the smaller port through hull.
Sheesh!

I've done this sort or stuff also.
It is always fun (????) to reengineer the boat from the way the factory did things.
I dare say most members with older boats, the type A4s are found in, have had the opportunity to reengineer their boats to one degree or another.

TRUE GRIT

[joe_db]

Run your engine until it gets good and hot. You might want to partially close (careful!) the intake valve for the cooling water. You want to get the temps up to at least 180 degrees. This will get rid of any water in the oil.

Originally Posted by Marty Levenson

Spent Saturday unplugging the drain (coathanger), and changing the oil three times, running the engine in between changes. She fired right up, which was a relief. After the third change I ran her in gear a while at the dock, thinking that splashing good oil around the inside of the transmission might be a good idea.

I was amazed how bad even the second batch looked as I pumped it out. Thinking to be safe I might do a fourth oil change. Is that crazy?

Put some bilge cleaner in to hopefully dissolve the remainder of the oil.

Left a heater running and washed all cushion covers, bedding and clothing.

Next job is to clean the sole and a couple cupboards that got oily. Then on to replumbing the drains. Thinking I might reroute the port cockpit drain to the smaller port through hull.

Sheesh!

[HOTFLASH]

Marty,

Ouch!

The old fashion loop style toilet brush is great for cleaning the narrow, deep T27 bilges with a centerboard trunk. I also have used a narrow brush that is several feel long made to clean under and behind refrigerators.

Good luck!

Mary

[Oldlaxer1]

When I bought my boat the bilge was a mess too. I used the toilet brush from the dollar store for the easy to reach places and then got one of these for the hard to reach places. Dawn dish detergent did the trick for me.
https://www.amazon.com/Brushtech-B68...ZDZPEW8PGT116K

[Marty Levenson]

Having dodged a serious bullet, I've been thinking about how easy it is to assume that a system design that worked for 40 some years will continue to work. Not to sound paranoid, but wondering what other threats are lurking.

[Administrator]

At my age, and it isn't 40, I have the same concerns about my body!

Bill