Dyed gas

[Marty Levenson]

Here in BC I use marked (aka "dyed" or "farm") gas. It is billed as ethanol free, 91 octane, and priced less than unleaded regular 87 octane. Legal here for "unlicensed vehicles". I have to haul it to the boat in Jerry cans, but seems worth the trouble. Wondering why everyone doesn't do the same?

Next summer we hope to do more cruising than this year, which will mean likely gassing up at fuel docks. I'm hoping a little ethanol added to the farm gas won't affect anything. What should I look out for?

Thanks!

[tenders]

The gas is cheaper because it doesn't have the transportation and highway taxes on it. I would use that if I could but it is not available in my area - no farms to speak of.

No harm in adding ethanol-laden fuel to it but I would be extra-certain to add fuel stabilizer to it, and get the tank as low as possible before refueling with the "good stuff" so you get as much ethanol out of the system as possible.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by Marty Levenson

I'm hoping a little ethanol added to the farm gas won't affect anything. What should I look out for?
Thanks!

If you don't know already check the rubber fuel hoses to be sure they are ethanol rated.
Ethanol has a rep for a solvent action which will scour any crud in the fuel tank loose. Nothing to be overly afraid of but keep it in the back of your mind.
Also be sure what goes into your fuel tank is gasoline not diesel fuel. Getting diesel in the tank will ruin you'r whole day.

TRUE GRIT

[capnward]

As long as you don't have a fiberglass tank, and your hoses are rated for ethanol, you will probably be able to get away with using ethanol gas for a while. Some are able to use it with no problem. I would rather not take the chance. Being towed is bad for business. Two days ago I put in 2 gallons of E10, on top of 20 gallons non-E in the tank. I doubt it will be a problem. I needed to stop at a gas dock to pick some people up. Usually I get non-ethanol in a Jerry can when I drive into town, or get it from a local gas dock that sells only non-ethanol. There is a petroleum distributor on this island that carries it. It's also used by those with small gas engines, weed-eaters and such. In this region, 76 brand gas stations have it. The gas dock at my marina has ethanol gas with Valve-Tect additive, which they say alleviates ethanol problems, but I don't trust it.
As I understand it, with non-ethanol gas, any water and associated crud will stay at the bottom of the tank, until the tube picks it up, more likely when the fuel level is low, and/or when the contents have been sloshed around in waves. With ethanol, it is dispersed in the gas, going downstream at a steadier rate. My hoses are ethanol-resistant. I don't know if my mechanical pump diaphragm, or the rubber tip on the float valve needle, will degrade in the presence of ethanol, and I don't want to find out. I do know the brown gooey crud that used to collect in the bottom of the Racor filter has stopped appearing since I stopped using ethanol. Ethanol will break loose crud from your tank and send it into the filters, or into the carb to create blockages, until your tank is clean. If you can clean your carburetor and jets, and replace filters when problems arise, you will be alright. Bring plenty of filters and carburetor gaskets on the cruise. Inspect the gas at the bottom of the Racor periodically.
A gas dock once filled my tank with diesel, but it didn't ruin my whole day, just delayed my departure. (When they ask if you want gas or diesel, reply "gasoline", with emphasis on the last syllable. Then watch what they do. Avoid green fuel hoses.) They pumped out the tank into a 50 gallon drum and refilled it within an hour or so. No ill effects that I could tell. I was actually glad they got rid of at least some of whatever was at the bottom of the tank.
I try to not get the gas level in the tank too low, in hopes that the stuff on the bottom won't get into the carb. Keeping the fuel level in the tank high will decrease the amount of water condensing out of the air onto the sides of the tank, and into the gas.
I will use more than 100 gallons this year. No breakdowns while underway yet, knock on wood.

[tenders]

I'm not delighted with ethanol fuel, but I've used it exclusively in my engine as it's been introduced into auto fuel, and never had a problem with it. I had two seasons, 2009 and 2015, in which the boat didn't launch at all and I had no troubles starting the engine the following spring either time. In 2016 I drained the tank and found nothing of interest even at the bottom.

I use Sta-Bil religiously and generously, year-round (though I'm hauled out in the winter).

I use MMO religiously and generously.

I have a Racor filter that lasted from 2008-2016 and was just replaced because it seemed like 8 years was long enough for a filter, and an in-line polishing filter that I haven't replaced for several years.

I replaced my fuel hose in about 2005, just because.

With these minor procedures I am of the opinion that ethanol has been a non-issue for me.

[sastanley]

Marty, in the US, they dye diesel for off-road use but not gasoline. However, in my county there are only two places that I know to buy non-ethanol fuel. Fortunately for me, the closest of those two places is about a 15 minute drive, or a 1.5 hour boat run @ 5 knots by boat. Like you, I lug jerry cans, and have had much better luck with the ethanol free fuel.

All that being said, I discovered a year or so ago I had a compromised fuel fill cap and it was still allowing water into the fuel system thru the bad o-ring, but it was easier to mitigate with ethanol free fuel than fuel laced with ethanol.

So far this season, I have had ZERO fuel issues, except for some junk in the carb bowl..I cannot blame that on the source...maybe my filters aren't catching it...I also replaced the fuel fill last season..maybe I could blame the junk on the fuel source..

edit- so here is my theory...if you burn the gas reasonably quickly, and don't have the gas sitting and allowing moisture getting into the gas thru the vent and sitting idle, there is no reason to be concerned. We've all been running E-10 in our cars for years...but I fill my stupid car up every two weeks or so. I have a project car that unfortunately has had ethanol laced fuel sitting in it for a couple years now..I'll let you know what happens if/when I try to start that thing again..Once I fix the transmission, I'll probably drain the fuel tank and not subject the engine to the junk in the tank..

[toddster]

We buy (red) farm diesel but I don't recall that we ever bought gasoline in bulk - not sure if it's dyed or not. They dye marine diesel blue, because it's taxed differently too. Cops just love to find dyed diesel in your highway vehicle, when they've pulled you over for something else. Just a nice bonus for them.

I did go to the trouble of searching out non-E gas a couple of times, but lately I've just capitulated.

[ndutton]

Speaking for myself only, with a clean tank made of anything other than fiberglass, alcohol rated fuel hoses (fill and vent too) and a good sealing fuel fill deck plate I have not experienced a single issue with E10 gasoline for over a decade including layoffs as long as a year.

Really, it's not the boogeyman it's made out to be.

[romantic comedy]

I use e10 gas with no problems at all. No water in the aluminum fuel tank either.

[sastanley]

Neil, I am beginning to think that my fuel fill was compromised for a lot longer than I was aware of.

however, I do see more varnish type build up in ethanol carbs than carbs run with non-ethanol fuel.

[ndutton]

Dunno what to tell ya Shawn. My comment was based on my personal ethanol experience. Carb is clean as a whistle, always is and I rebuild mine bi-annually as a regular maintenance item.

Question: are you in the habit of running the carb dry when closing up the boat?

[sastanley]

Neil, I am sorry I wasn't clear.

I have not had any issues with varnish build-up in my carb(s), just water (see below)....this was another A-4 carb and some other small engine carbs that ran a bunch of ethanol gas and sat for an unspecified period of time (some of mine included, like an inherited pressure washer). The A-4's that was varnished was idle on the hard for several?? years in a Sabre 28 I think. We did eventually get it cleaned up and the motor running, and off it went to wherever it went?!?! I might have asked a few questions about this on the forum a while back. I am too lazy to look it up.

I should not have implied that ethanol fuel caused varnish problems in all carbs, and additionally that the water intrusion problem into my fuel tank (for an unknown period of time) was causing varnishing and fuel issues...I was mixing and matching, which does not help with accurate analysis of a particular situation. You are right to call me out so we keep accurate info on this forum.

[ndutton]

Hmmm, I think I'm pretty good at 'calling out' but that's not what I intended, sorry if it came off that way. I'm sure gasoline of any sort allowed to evaporate away will leave a nasty residue (varnish) every time, ethanol laced or not.

[BunnyPlanet169]

Originally Posted by ndutton

I'm sure gasoline of any sort allowed to evaporate away will leave a nasty residue (varnish) every time, ethanol laced or not.

Anecdotally, I was informed a couple years ago by my local small engine place (Agway: Feed, seed, chain saws, lawn mowers, weed wackers, etc) that their manufacturers recommendations had changed significantly.

Officially (from Stihl, Husqevarna, Toro) only fill the tank with gas you need for the job. Only mix enough two stoke for the job at hand. Run the carbs and tank dry.

The issue was not so much with ethanol, as much as significant and long term reformulation of gasoline. Gas is a witches brew of various chemicals, and it's apparently very different than it was, say, 20 years ago. More volatility, and what's left tends to form varnish more readily.

Small engine people are trying very hard to re-educate us boomer types, who remember that Dad's gas lasted for years in the small tank in the shed. It's no longer so.

There are, of course, a few hundred other variables for each of us - climate, humidity, frequency of use, star alignment, near miss earth asteroids, etc. But that's the bottom line - gas doesn't stay as fresh for as long as it used to.

[sastanley]

Jeff, I have also made this a new policy with my small engines...mix what I need, especially if it is 2-stroke, and empty the tank when I am done unless I am gonna use it next week (mower). Easy with chain saws, push mowers, etc. Little tougher with the A-4, but I try to time the fuel pressure near zero and stumbling with the pink antifreeze into the raw water side..it is a tricky wicket. Regardless of whether I get it right, I pull the carb drain and squirt some Seafoam in there.

My local small engine place is a party rental joint, but also a Stihl dealer with similar advice. They helped me un-F my new Stihl chainsaw right after I bought it from them quite nicely. I covet that piece of equipment almost as much as my A-4...

[toddster]

That's funny... I'm getting to the age where one tank of fuel is about enough chain-sawing for one session. When it sputters out, so do I. Maybe two on Saturdays. This is a more serious matter than you might think, in the Beaver State.
Almost time to start again, as soon as we get an inch of rain.

However, I've noticed that a lot of small engines sold at Home Depot are good for one (1) use and then they will never run again. No matter what quality fuel you use. I'm not sure what that's about. My old ones just keep going and going...

Another thing with the chain saws is that once or twice a season, I need to take the screen out of the exhaust and clean out all the soot with carb cleaner and a wire brush. I don't remember doing that, back in the day. (I doubt that those old engines had any such thing in the exhaust.)