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  #201   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-18-2011, 04:37 PM
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"But that was a priceless Steinway piano!"

"Nut ennymeure".
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  #202   IP: 99.50.56.159
Old 06-18-2011, 11:15 PM
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"Congrats"

Bill,
Thank you for taking the time to documment your search for the mystery oil leak. While rolling my block around the trunk of my Toyota, I'm surprised that we missed that plug as a possibility. I'm quite confident, at this point, that the reassembly will go smoothly and you will have a sweet running A4 in no time.
Tom
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeRust View Post
"But that was a priceless Steinway piano!"
"Nut ennymeure".
"There is a time to laugh and a time not to laugh, and this is not one of them."
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  #204   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 06-19-2011, 02:54 PM
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Dumb question: Are you saying that even though you never ran the engine with the previous gaskets that you still need new ones?
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  #205   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-19-2011, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpian0923 View Post
Dumb question: Are you saying that even though you never ran the engine with the previous gaskets that you still need new ones?
Yes, because when I opened the engine back up, the gaskets got destroyed. If they had remained intact, I would have re-used them (and in fact, I am re-using a few gaskets that came off intact). But the oil pan gaskets, the rear round seal gasket, and the front flywheel housing gasket got torn up and ruined in pulling the housings apart.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:08 PM
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Have you seen this?
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Gasket installation instructions.pdf (11.7 KB, 609 views)
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  #207   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-19-2011, 06:10 PM
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Yup. Got it from Ken a while back, after we were discussing the whole issue.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:25 PM
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It's kind of depressing to think you have to replace a gasket every time you remove it.
I thought that only high compression gaskets would need to be replaced every time.
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  #209   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-19-2011, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpian0923 View Post
It's kind of depressing to think you have to replace a gasket every time you remove it.
I thought that only high compression gaskets would need to be replaced every time.
Well, not always. I have to replace those only because they got destroyed in pulling those pieces apart. If you're able to get them apart and keep the gasket in one piece, I don't see why you couldn't reuse them. I removed the reversing gear cover plate and managed to keep that gasket intact (I think), and I plan on reusing it. I also removed the water pump without damaging that gasket, and plan on sticking it right back on.

As far as the oil pan gasket, it's not one that I would anticipate needing to open up and reuse all that often. As far as I know, the one I removed when I first opened the engine up was the factory original from 1983. I anticipate that once I get the engine back in the boat, the oil pan gasket I put in will be in there for the next 30 years.

Being that it's basically just thick paper, though, it's not too hard to tear it when pulling things apart.

The front gasket, that goes behind the flywheel housing, also gets Permatex on both sides (front and back) of the bottom half. So there's pretty much no way you're getting that off in one piece.

In any case, they're only a few bucks a piece, so it's not the end of the world.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:54 PM
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that's true. But now you have to wait.
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  #211   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-25-2011, 06:09 PM
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Lots to report. Long day today. I started working on the engine at about 9:15 a.m. and wrapped up at 5:00 p.m.

First:

I began the day with the bare engine sitting on a WorkMate. No oil pan, flywheel, flywheel housing, reversing gear, reversing gear housing, accessory drive, distributor or water pump attached. Just the full block with head on.

First thing I did was flip it upside-down.



Then I re-installed the oil pickup screen, attached the rear housing, and slipped in the reversing gear assembly:



I noticed that the reversing gear brake band came extremely close to the dipstick tube. In fact, it would actually bump up against it if I pushed the brake band forward.



If I put the whole assembly and brake band where it looked to me like it should be, the dipstick tube would actually interfere with the brake band:



Then I remembered the little connecting link that goes from the shifting yoke to the brake band adjusting bolt. That holds it in place and sets the distance from the shifting yoke. Once I hooked that up, all was fine.
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Old 06-25-2011, 06:14 PM
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Since most of us probably are unlikely to ever see the engine from this angle, I figured I would get a few shots of it.



I attached the rear flange, just loosely, but enough to help align the oil pan as I lowered it into place.





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  #213   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-25-2011, 06:19 PM
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Ok, so then the next step was to get ready for the oil pan. I tapped in the two aligning pins:





Applied a little Permatex to the area around the seam between the block and rear housing, as recommended by Moyer:



And neatly laid my nice, new gaskets in place:

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  #214   IP: 99.41.59.34
Old 06-25-2011, 06:40 PM
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Bill,
I would almost bet that that's the way the factory assembled them originally. I may give it a try when I put together #2. I'm sure there are many of out here waiting for your oil pressure gauge to do it's thing.
With Fingers Crossed, Tom
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  #215   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-25-2011, 06:45 PM
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Then came the oil pan:



Normally, if your engine is in this configuration, it would indicate that your boat has a serious problem:



I also took the opportunity to do a little touch-up painting to fix some nicks and scrapes.
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  #216   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-25-2011, 06:50 PM
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After that, I had my neighbor come over and give me a hand lifting the engine off the WorkMate, flipping it over and setting it down into the cradle/dolly.

I then attached the flywheel housing, flywheel and cover, then the starter, accessory drive, water pump, distributor and coil.

Didn't get any photos of that - dunno why, other than I was rolling and just plumb forgot.

Then I hooked up all the wiring and my gauges and rolled it out into the driveway to try to fire it up.

I was confident I would have oil pressure; now it was just a matter of getting the engine started and running.

I have some videos to edit and post, but rather than keep Tom in suspense, I will report the following:

1. I have oil pressure.

2. There is no joy in Mudville.
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  #217   IP: 65.44.197.66
Old 06-25-2011, 08:49 PM
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What's the issue, Bill?

Spark?

Gas?

Compression?
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  #218   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-25-2011, 09:49 PM
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Sorry for the delay - we went out and met some friends for ice cream.

Anyhow, still working on figuring out the video thing - I'd like everyone to see and hear what it's doing and see if we can't come up with some ideas.

We've got spark. We've got gasoline - in fact, we flooded it. I might go ahead and take the carb apart just on general principle. The carb is pretty new and clean, so I really doubt that's the problem.

It really seems to be an ignition timing issue. I read and re-read the Moyer Manual on timing and consulted two different wiring diagrams and the pics on the Moyer Manual, to be absolutely sure I had the secondary wires connected to the right positions on the distributor cap and had the distributor properly oriented.

What was happening was backfiring and dirty smoke shooting back out of the carb. We both got the impression it was acting like the spark was coming too early, so we kept turning the distributor to retard the spark, but to no avail.

Here is a video showing the test stand setup:

[YOUTUBE]-t6bzJV8kUQ[/YOUTUBE]
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Last edited by ILikeRust; 06-26-2011 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:55 PM
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My instant knee-jerk W-A-Guess is the distributor might be 180 degrees out. That is, you were actually at the top of the exhaust stroke on #1 when you thought you were at TDC.

I hate what else I'm thinking so I'll shaddup right now.
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Last edited by ndutton; 06-25-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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  #220   IP: 38.102.16.112
Old 06-25-2011, 09:57 PM
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Here are instructions for embedding a YouTube video.

Bill
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  #221   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 06-25-2011, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
My instant knee-jerk W-A-Guess is the distributor might be 180 degrees out. That is, you were actually at the top of the exhaust stroke on #1 when you thought you were at TDC.

I hate what else I'm thinking so I'll shaddup right now.
My neighbor has been rebuilding Alfa-Romeos, Fiats and Abarths for over 30 years as a serious hobby, so it was good to have him there to help. But we just could not figure out the problem.

We checked, double-checked and triple-checked the timing. At first, for some bizarro reason, the wires on the distro cap were 90 degrees off. That is, the 3 wire was where the 1 wire is supposed to be; the 1 wire was where the 3 wire is supposed to be, etc. And I have no idea why, because I never pulled the wires off the cap when I took everything apart. I specifically did not remove those wires, because at the time, I didn't yet know how they were supposed to go, and the engine ran well, so I didn't want to mess them up.

But after triple-checking against the diagrams I have downloaded from this very forum, we went ahead and relocated the wires to the proper location.

We also removed the #1 spark plug to confirm when the piston was at TDC and that both intake and exhaust valves were closed, so that not only were we sure we were at the right part of the cycle, but we also knew that the camshaft timing was correct, since the valves were closed when they were supposed to be closed and opening when they were supposed to be opening. I actually took an LED flashlight and shined it in there so I could directly SEE the intake valve and be sure it was closed. You can see the exhaust valve right under the spark plug hole. We used at a small screw driver to feel when the piston was at TDC.

You were thinking cam timing, weren't you, Neil? I was too, when we couldn't figure out what the hell else it was. But I know I lined up those timing marks when I reassembled the engine, and confirmed when the valves closed before putting it back together.

Of course, I also "knew" I had re-installed all the oil galley plugs.

Jeez Louise, if it's the damn cam timing I'm going to tear my hair out.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Here are instructions for embedding a YouTube video.
Yeah, I don't have any problem doing that, it's just that the video won't show up for me. I'm using Firefox, and evidently it somehow conflicts with Flash, so I get an error message instead of a video. I'm sure most people are using Windows Internet Exploder, so I'm sure it would work fine for them, but anyone using Firefox might not see it. I figure a link is a little lower-tech, but at least it's more reliable.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:29 PM
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Hmmm. I use Firefox without any issues.

Bill
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:24 PM
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If you have not done so already, please take the exhaust pipe out of the water.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeRust View Post
You were thinking cam timing, weren't you, Neil?
I confess I was but couldn't bring myself to say it out loud.
Look, if you're getting combustion when you shouldn't
Quote:
What was happening was backfiring and dirty smoke shooting back out of the carb.
it's a clear indication of spark with valves open, the only two areas it can be are ignition timing/firing order and/or valve timing.

What other possibilities are there?
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