New Boat Owner/Where to start/Help/Hello

[jil]

Hi there,

I just bought a 1968 Tartan 27. The A4 engine was rebuilt in 1998 and was cared for until the last owners. They didn't do any basic maintenance plus, the boat had some (supposedly fresh) water in it for for 1-4 weeks. I assumed that they put a ton of miles on the boat since they were new sailors and mostly sailed the ICW.

From what the owner told me, no water entered the engine. He changed the oil a couple of times before turning it over and it seems to be working.
I was told that I should be most concerned about the transmission. How can I check the transmission?

I hauled out the boat because most of the wiring has oxidization throughout and some of the wires have turned to dust. Wires are brittle as well.
I know need to rewire the engine. What else should I do or be concerned about?
I plan on mostly taking her in the open ocean singlehanded so safety and engine performance is quite important to me. Although I want to use the engine as little as possible, my life has already been saved by motoring out of a hellish storm in the

With that said, I know NOTHING about the A4s and only a little about engines. I am smart as well as mechanically inclined but, I don't know where to start in terms of understanding this engine.

I know I am going to have many questions as soon as I dig in but what I know I need to find is a clear wiring schematic for the engine complete with gauges of wires needed, etc.. (and if any of you happen know all the wiring for a tartan 27 that would be useful as well)

Also- this boat has no zincs and an Indigo prop. I read this negates the need for zincs... is this true? What happens if I install shore power?

Excited to learn, hope y'all have patience for a total newbie!
Thanks,
Jil

[sastanley]

Hello, Jil..

Welcome to the forum...first..relax...we are all here to help. I remember in 2008 when I bought my boat and knew ZERO about Atomic4s, except that when I was a kid it ran whenever it needed to. This forum has taught me everything I know..which still isn't much..but..

If you have the Indigo prop and no zinc, check the atomic4.com site to see if you have the correct combination to avoid zincs. I have an Indigo prop too, but mine is bronze and not zinc free.

One of the first things I did (it took me a couple years) was to re-wire the entire engine circuit. That helped a lot to give some confidence related to the wiring at least from engine to batteries and back. Catalina 30s like I have are notorious for trailer plug style connectors that like to corrode. Your boat may be different, but the more familiar you become with each component and system on the boat, the better.

Shore power always introduces additional things to consider. To this day, I have none. It usually seems that the problem might be bad marina wiring or neighbor wiring if you are confident in your own..again..plenty of help here.

The transmission is kinda like a motorcycle trans is to the A4...it is a reversing gear and uses the same oil as the engine...

As for the rest of it, we will help you tackle it piece by piece, issue by issue.

I did the same thing you did when I first got my boat..hauled it for the winter because I did not know what I had.

Did your boat come with a Moyer Manual? If not, make sure that is included in your first order from Moyer Marine..it is worth every penny (my boat came with one.)

[Mo]

Hi Jil, welcome aboard. Wiring is not my forte, figuring out mechanical engine problem generally works out for me. If you are mechanically inclined and don't mind challenges you will do fine.

Boats are a going concern...the only boat owner that don't think so are the ones that don't keep up with the maintenance. You will find that it takes time to do a refit on your boat. I bought my C&C 30 in 2007 and she needed cosmetic work...so I thought. I took the boat home and spent 8 weeks working on her...10-12 hrs a day. Keep in mind I was off all summer (have done that for 15 yrs) and had time and money to pour into it.

With that in mind, I'd advise to tackle one system at a time...it works. Too many people pull everything apart and never get it back together again. Your boat may need work in different areas and it's a good thing to check systems and tackle problems in order of importance. Don't underestimate the value of your engine...when I did my boat it (engine) was the last thing I did...took me week to figure out what was wrong with it and do the top end...once I figured out the engine there was nothing to it. It was a bit of a learning curve but I'd rebuilt an engine before...regardless, this is engine and with the right help, tools and parts it can be a dependable as the sun rising.

Enjoy the boat

[Al Schober]

Jil,
Welcome to the forum! We were all newbies here once...
Good choice of boat. Those old Tartans are hard to beat.
Little concerned about the water in the boat. How much? If none got into the engine, why did the PO change the oil several times? Hmmm.. Anyway, it's in the past - we'll just have to keep it in mind for addressing future problems. If the starter has been under water, that may be an issue.
Transmission is pretty simple. Forward is 1:1 through a disc clutch. It should engage (perhaps with a bit of force) and not slip. Reverse is through a spur gear planetary (noisy), and you have to hold the lever in reverse.
Wiring - ahhh yes. Green crumbling cable... Be sure to replace with tinned stranded cable of the proper gauge - proper color is also nice. Crimp connectors should also be tinned. If you don't have a ratchet crimper that you trust, you may want to solder after crimping. Our host sells a wiring kit that includes proper color and gauge wiring. At least the engine will be right.
As for the engine itself, it's basically a big flathead lawnmower engine - flathead meaning that the valves are in the block rather than the head. The block is made of a high nickel iron alloy, and is quite tolerant of salt water cooling. Many of us have gone to fresh water cooling, using a heat exchanger and glycol coolant to avoid corrosion issues and winterizing issues. One design point to be aware of is that the engine only has two main bearings - one at each end. Please don't try to see how many RPM you can get from the engine!
Strongly recommend the Moyer Overhaul and Maintenance manual. It's the Bible for these engines, and we are likely to quote it 'chapter & verse' when giving 'theological' advice.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Jil
Here's some ideas to get the ball rolling.
Even though the PO said no water got into engine pull the dipstick and see what the oil looks like. If the oil looks like a chocolate milkshake there is water in the oil. If the oil looks like clean or dirty oil then there is no water in it. If there is water in the oil you will need to change the oil, run the engine for awhile and repeat until you get all of the water out of the oil.

The place to start with the trany is to let the shift cable loose at the trany and shift by hand using the shift lever on the side of the engine. If you cannot move the lever to these positions,forward & reverse, with cockpit shift control you will need adjust the linkage. If the engine does not perform properly when you shift by hand you will need to make an adjustment inside the trany.
Be sure to use marine grade wire when you rewire. The wires are oxidizing and turning to dust because the outer cover is cheap o plastic which has cracked.
If you are still on the hard some of this may have to be deferred till you get back into the water.

TRUE GRIT

[Skywalker]

Welcome, Jil

You'll find the support and guidance here invaluable. And I'll bet you will come to really appreciate your A4.

I sail a 1966 Tartan 27, original A4. These guys talked me off the ledge a couple of times. I also spin the Indigo prop. If you don't zinc protect it, I'm pretty sure you have to isolate your prop shaft at the coupling. I would just put a zinc on. You will have to cut down an off the shelf zinc to make it fit between the deadwood and prop. My local shop charges me $5 to do it because it's a PITA for me to do with a hacksaw!

Our T27s are great little boats. The more you sail her, the more confidence you will have that they can take us anywhere, anytime. If you haven't already, check your chainplate knees. This is their Achilles heal. They retain water, rot out the wood and bolts, and have often led to catastrophic failure. I've rebuilt mine as have others on this site.

Ask away...

Best of luck.

Chris
Skywalker
t27 249

[hanleyclifford]

Welcome, again (from the alternative). If you really mean that (title), you need to take that engine apart and put it back together - yourself. There is a lot of help and information here; and we do love pictures. First thing, get that Moyer Marine engine manual. 27 foot boat single handed on open ocean? You're even nuttier than me.

[jil]

The dipstick is clean. I checked it after running it a couple of times. I would not have bought the boat if there was any sign of water. I attached a picture below.
Thankfully the slip was only 4.5 ft!

I know I should clean the carb (need to read about how) and most likely change out all the filters. (also need to read about how) Also- NONE of the gauges work but, they are installed. I'm assuming that is not too hard to get functioning again?

The engine does run, there is some smoke and a fair amount of exhaust fills the cabin when the boat is running. Note pic below.



These were the upgrades done to the boat:
Engine is freshwater cooled.
Racor water separator fuel filter and extra bypass fuel filter right before carb to guarantee clean fuel goes through the carb.
New starter 2012
New Oil Pressure sensor 2013
New fuel pump 2013



SKYWALKER- another selling point for the boat was that the chainplates have been replaced except for the aft... noticed that one was loose after buying the boat- the stay appeared tight what i didn't notice is that it was hooked in the cleat of the mizzen boom. It's very loose- tried adjusting but there is no more room.
I am planning to replace the aft chainplate because it only makes sense since she is dry docked. Also need to see about the through hull fittings.
I will buy a zinc. I will sleep better knowing that there is one there even if it is not needed.
The wiring for the 12v is a complete mess as well and the batteries are not correctly wired. 1 only charges if "both" is selected. That is going to be a rainy day project.

This is my engine- I do know that the bilge wire is connected incorrectly... was tired fixed after the picture....

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by jil

With that said, I know NOTHING about the A4s and only a little about engines. I am smart as well as mechanically inclined but, I don't know where to start in terms of understanding this engine.Jil

GET THE MOYER MANUAL

It's a good place to start and an investment that can't go wrong.

TRUE GRIT

PS: Welcome aboard.

[hanleyclifford]

Looking at your Avatar trying to recognize the lift - are you on Core Creek, Boch or that new one (I forget the name)?

[jil]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

Looking at your Avatar trying to recognize the lift - are you on Core Creek, Boch or that new one (I forget the name)?

Bock- next to a boat called Destiny!

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by jil

Bock- next to a boat called Destiny!

Driven by many times but never stopped there; I have stayed at Sea Gate a few times and always get my fuel there. I believe Bock is DIY yard so you are in a great spot.

[Marian Claire]

jil.
I am finishing up a few days cruising and plan to be back at Mathews Point tomorrow. It is a short drive to Bocks. If you are at Bocks I would be happy to swing by and give it a look or just talk A-4's.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Trés 30]

You'll find a lot of wiring diagrams by putting "atomic 4 wiring diagram" into a search engine, many of which originate from this site.

There is a zinc you can put on the end of the prop, instead of cutting a donut down, if the T27 takes them, looks like a cone with a nut that fits inside.

While you have her hauled out you may (or may not) want to see if you need bottom paint, as well as check the condition of the cutlass bearing and possibly replace it (these come to mind since I'm due for both myself). Neither of these are particularly difficult jobs but you'll want to know the condition before putting her back in.

Most importantly enjoy your great boat and enjoy the process of making her stronger.

Welcome to the forum!

[hanleyclifford]

Like this:

[Skywalker]

Make sure when you redo the rear chainplate knee you can bolt the chainplate on the outside. Be careful of the wire for the stern light.

Skywalkwer

[Mo]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

Welcome, again (from the alternative). If you really mean that (title), you need to take that engine apart and put it back together - yourself. There is a lot of help and information here; and we do love pictures. First thing, get that Moyer Marine engine manual. 27 foot boat single handed on open ocean? You're even nuttier than me.

I met a guy from Annapolis two summers ago headed across the Atlantic in an Albin...I think it was a 27. People ran rum from Newfoundland to Boston during prohibition in 30 foot boat...loaded to the gills. Patrols didn't go after them because they figured they couldn't have been carrying much...one boat load could run a speak easy for week...and they didn't mind paying LOL.

Here in NS I tell people looking for their first boat, usually a couple in thier 30's with a couple of kids....C&C27....solid, fast, build like a brick SH, sails reasonably priced, upkeep reasonable. 27-32 is the optimal boat in my book...easy to handle...and if crew gets sick one person should be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat. If it gets rough it doesn't matter what we are on...but it needs to be robust...ie, take a hard hit on a beamy Hunter or Bene...14 feet to cross before you hit the other side and break something.

Tartan 27...yeah...good boat....give'r.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Originally Posted by Mo

.ie, take a hard hit on a beamy Hunter or Bene...14 feet to cross before you hit the other side and break something..

Dang right there pal. Yet one of the selling points for these boats is "how much room there is below."
I think such boats are more suitable for entertaining in the marina and for short afternoon sails than for actual blue water sailing.

TRUE GRIT

[Skywalker]

Tres,

Where do you buy those zincs? There is room behind the prop for one. Years ago, when I had money but not much in the way of brains, I bought a Vari prop feathering prop for my Tartan. It used a zinc cone, too. But as you may remember, I sold my Tartan, kept the prop, sold the prop, bought back the Tartan, bought an Indigo.

Skywalker

[ndutton]

Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON

Dang right there pal. Yet one of the selling points for these boats is "how much room there is below."
I think such boats are more suitable for entertaining in the marina and for short afternoon sails than for actual blue water sailing.

Reminds me of a plant tour policy back in the day. More important than WOW-ing a potential customer with manufacturing processes and new (at the time) materials technology was catering to his wife who could kill a deal as fast as throwing a pan of water on an open flame. We would separate the husband and wife, take him to the mold shop, wood shop, mast shop and finally reunite them in the assembly shop. The wife's tour went directly to the finished assembly phase of the largest boat we built (also the roomiest) where the cushions and curtains were already installed, the 'kitchen' was complete, like a new home tour.

Sexist? Yes, but it worked. It was all about sales. Designing and building the best offshore boat is a worthy endeavor but you have to sell enough to keep the doors open on your 50,000 foot facility. Look at the Bristol Channel Cutter by Sam Morse. Great offshore boat, maybe even a perfect cruiser but they sold only a handful a year and of course they're long gone now.

[jil]

I'm at the boat and I had Dan come and show me the engine.
I feel a lot more sane in my journey with this engine. I'm so appreciative.
I can't get my fuel valve to close- thinking of using pb blaster to try. I don't think the last owner ever shut it. Is that a horrible idea?
Also- when I touch the gaskets of the carb I smell gas. I'm assuming I should get the service kit and fix this? Can this wait? Is this dangerous?
Would prefer not to blow up boat yard....
I attached a picture- there was noticeable gas smells on the paint below the carburetor as well.
Thank you,
Jil

[hanleyclifford]

If the fuel shut off won't close it's easy to see why the carb is leaking fuel. This is the very thing the shut off is supposed to prevent. First thing before running the engine - get that shut off to do it's job.

[jil]

Do some valves open and close with only 20 degrees of movement? Sorry to ask dumb question but, I'm going to.
This valve moves about 20 degrees and has a definite stop point.

[Al Schober]

I've got a valve like that. Mine goes a full 90 degrees from off to on. I suspect it may also go 90 degrees the other way, allowing it to act as a selector valve for two tanks.
I recently added a ball valve at the inlet to my Racor filter. I had a 12V solenoid valve (connected to the OPSS with the fuel pump) but I didn't trust it.
It's real nice to be able to shut off the fuel so you can work on stuff like the fuel filters, pump, and carburetor.

[hanleyclifford]

Like Al said that valve should turn 90 degrees. Try putting some penetrating oil at the base of the shaft where it enters the housing. BTW, that fuel hose looks a little shaky too.