Help... Electrical issue... engine is dead.

[mrhoneydew]

I am a bit stumped...

Backstory:

When I bought my '69 Columbia 28 the Atomic 4 was dead. Over time I resurrected it and it was running ok. Out for the first test run I overheated it and it died... it has a freshwater system that I didn't have enough fluid in. Oops.

So when I finally got around to trying to start it again it is now dead. It would crank over initially but now it's just dead. I tested both batteries and they register just over 12 volts (I thought they might be dead because my bilge switch had been accidentally switched on for I don't know how long). The electric fuel pump wasn't priming when I turned on the key and I thought maybe I had blown the oil pressure safety switch. I put a new switch in, but nothing. The fuel pump still doesn't make a sound. Turning on the ignition, none of the gauges register and the starter only randomly clicks once in a while. What would be the best course of action? Maybe test the coil to see if I fried it when I overheated it? Still doesn't explain it not cranking over or the gauges not registering when I turn on the ignition switch. Could the ignition switch be shot? I guess I could jump it between the contacts and see if it will engage the starter? I am kind of at a loss as to how to proceed to troubleshoot this. I think the engine is fine and I am just having an electrical issue.

[Easy Rider]

Sounds to me like the batteries are not giving you enough juice. That's where I would start.

[ndutton]

OK, one thing at a time and let's try to avoid guessing. I'd start with the voltage source and follow it along.

The first test I would make is battery voltage while trying to start. This will tell us the condition of your batteries and/or high amperage wiring. With a voltmeter on the battery posts have a helper try to start. Read the voltage during the start attempt and report back. If it goes to zero, the wiring is intact and the battery is flat. If it stays the same there is a wiring problem.

Your reported battery voltage at rest indicates your battery is between 20% and 40% state of charge or in other words, low. The electric fuel pump should make no noise (not operate) when the key is turned on. Only when the oil pressure rises above ~6 PSI will the oil pressure safety switch close and deliver power to the pump so no worries about the fuel pump or its circuitry just yet.

[mrhoneydew]

I was afraid the batteries might be low. I'll test while trying to start it. As for the fuel pump... when I would start the engine before it would run very briefly when I first turned on the key. I assume it is supposed to do that to ensure that the carb is getting fuel when it needs it? And before this current issue of it not doing anything when I turn on the key the fuel pump didn't appear to be kicking on at all. I guess as long as the carb is full the float is closing off the fuel supply so it isn't requiring fuel, thus the fuel pump doesn't need to kick on.

By the way, I have a (low amp) battery charger in the system to keep the house lights going and they are working fine. Am I correct in assuming that they draw so little that even if the batteries are low on juice there would be no noticeable effect? What the problem could be us cranking amps? If the bilge pump had been running long enough to sap the batteries wouldn't the charger be able to bring them back up over time? (I think it's a 5amp.) that happened a week ago so there should have been plenty of time to recharge the batteries.

Everyone is gone for the holiday weekend so I might just pull the starting battery and take it in to have it bench tested.

Thank you for the replies. I will report back after I get down to the boat.

[ndutton]

Yeah, lighting and starting are two very different loads. Your lighting may draw a few amps, starting draws 130 amps so no way your polite little charger will keep up. As for your previous fuel pump behavior, it depends on how your pump is wired. You are correct however, there is enough residual fuel in the carburetor bowl to start and run the engine at idle for a minute or more.

The battery may not recover from this either.

Be prepared for multiple issues too. We will follow where the testing leads. I hope dead batteries is all it is but there are no guarantees. Also, be very careful about switching off the ignition after a no-start attempt. This is when it happens most often, 'it' being leaving the ignition on with the engine not running. It's a death sentence to a coil.

[hanleyclifford]

I was afraid the batteries might be low. I'll test while trying to start it. As for the fuel pump... when I would start the engine before it would run very briefly when I first turned on the key. I assume it is supposed to do that to ensure that the carb is getting fuel when it needs it? And before this current issue of it not doing anything when I turn on the key the fuel pump didn't appear to be kicking on at all. I guess as long as the carb is full the float is closing off the fuel supply so it isn't requiring fuel, thus the fuel pump doesn't need to kick on.

By the way, I have a (low amp) battery charger in the system to keep the house lights going and they are working fine. Am I correct in assuming that they draw so little that even if the batteries are low on juice there would be no noticeable effect? What the problem could be us cranking amps? If the bilge pump had been running long enough to sap the batteries wouldn't the charger be able to bring them back up over time? (I think it's a 5amp.) that happened a week ago so there should have been plenty of time to recharge the batteries.

Everyone is gone for the holiday weekend so I might just pull the starting battery and take it in to have it bench tested.

Thank you for the replies. I will report back after I get down to the boat.

Before pulling anything out of the boat I suggest you inspect the negative path back to the battery starting with the engine block and working back to the battery.

[Al Schober]

Putting the charger on the house battery may not pass through to the start battery - depends on your boat. Many of us have gone away from the old 2 battery system with the A/B switch to dedicated house and start batteries. Recommend you connect your charger directly to the posts of the start battery and make sure the voltage comes up with your meter. You'll want to hold 14 volts for an hour for a full charge. Does the boat have an ammeter? Knowing volts and amps is important electrical info.
A 5 amp charger sounds a bit anemic - suggest you shop for at least a 10 amp, 3 stage charger.
Suggest we do this in stages - a) charge the battery, b) get the starter spinning the motor, then c) get the beast running. One step at a time - faster than that and I fall over my feet!

[JOHN COOKSON]

Standard Warning

Keep the valve to the raw water pump closed until the engine straits.

TRUE GRIT

[JOHN COOKSON]

OK, one thing at a time and let's try to avoid guessing. I'd start with the voltage source and follow it along.
The first test I would make is battery voltage while trying to start. This will tell us the condition of your batteries and/or high amperage wiring. With a voltmeter on the battery posts have a helper try to start. Read the voltage during the start attempt and report back. If it goes to zero, the wiring is intact and the battery is flat. If it stays the same there is a wiring problem.

+1
Get a fully charged battery that you know is good and check the end connectors of all the big wires, ground and hot side, to see if they are bright and shiny and not corroded. We'll go from there.

TRUE GRIT

[ndutton]

Thanks John. Been trying to make the case for a while that guessing isn't troubleshooting. Sometimes the guessers get lucky and hit on the problem quickly, sometimes not. Taking logical steps will get you to the problem directly and hopefully avoid throwing a bunch of parts at it. It will make you a better troubleshooter too, including areas outside electrical. It's a mindset.

This weekend I was sharing an experience with another member about an electrical problem a new customer had for 20 years. She's had no less than three electricians try to fix it without success. I took a logical approach, had it repaired in 10 minutes. That's not an exaggeration, it was literally 10 minutes.

In the example, recognize that there is a big difference between electricians and troubleshooting electricians.

[mrhoneydew]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I don't have an ammeter, but I did test the batteries again and honestly I don't believe they are the problem. I can go through a few other things on the list until I can get someone there to turn the key while I put the meter on them again. I have an idea I smoked my coil, though. Not only can that happen when you overheat, but I left the key on for a few days before I noticed it. Oops. That's a cheap replacement and if my old one isn't bad then I'll at least have a spare. I'll report back once I make it back down to the boat and can go through things step by step.

[hanleyclifford]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I don't have an ammeter, but I did test the batteries again and honestly I don't believe they are the problem. I can go through a few other things on the list until I can get someone there to turn the key while I put the meter on them again. I have an idea I smoked my coil, though. Not only can that happen when you overheat, but I left the key on for a few days before I noticed it. Oops. That's a cheap replacement and if my old one isn't bad then I'll at least have a spare. I'll report back once I make it back down to the boat and can go through things step by step.

Leaving the key on for a few days keeping the coil connected should be sufficient to fry the coil - but that's only a guess.

[hanleyclifford]

Testing a battery is best done with a load tester. A battery can show fully charged on a voltmeter (12.6 - 12.7 volts) but not really be "charged". I keep one of these on board - eliminates the "guess work".

[JOHN COOKSON]

I have an idea I smoked my coil, though. Not only can that happen when you overheat, but I left the key on for a few days before I noticed it. Oops. That's a cheap replacement and if my old one isn't bad then I'll at least have a spare.

We're still a bit all over the map here. Get the engine to turn over. Then we can tell you how to test the coil. If you left the key on and the points\EI were open the coil will be OK.
Remember what Neil said about shotgun parts replacement. It's usually a waste of time and money.

TRUE GRIT

[hanleyclifford]

Coil Cuisine

Hmmm. Let's consider the odds. If you are running points in a Delco at 32 degrees of dwell (middle of the range), that's 128 degrees down out of 360 or about 36% - leaves 2 shots out of 3 the points were open - not bad odds for a gambling man. OTOH with EI at 55 degrees, that's 220 degrees down out of 360 or about 61% - now it's 2:1 for the House. So you have to ask yourself one question----do you feel lucky?