Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Fuel System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 24.209.170.115
Old 09-06-2010, 09:01 AM
sproption sproption is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 39
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Leaking Carb..choke lever?!?!?

Hi All.

I am in need of advice.

Getting ready for a Sunday sail, I discovered to my horror, about 1 gallon of gasoline in my bilge.

I have a late model A-4 with Series 68 carburator.

I traced the fuel leak to somewhere in my carb. I have never taken off or maintained my carb since I purchased from PO two years ago.

I am on an Ericson-29 so my access to the carburator side of the engine ranges from extremely tight to nearly impossible to reach. (I will post some photos soon.)

I shut down my fuel valve at the fuel tank, soaked up what gas I could and shut off my electrical system.

After some 2 hours of observation and the use of mirrors, I came to the conclusion that the fuel leak seams to be coming from the Choke Lever. I thought it would be coming from the 1/8 pipe scavange tube connection or a gasket higher up, but no, it seems to be from the Choke Lever shaft/plate.

I am on the verge of removing my carburator all together, bring it home and address the leak issue (If I can).

Does anyone have experience with a leaky carburator in the Choke Lever area? Does this sound possible or right?

Thanks

Matt
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 71.181.37.53
Old 09-06-2010, 09:43 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is online now
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
I am wondering if you could have a stuck float valve. Have you tried
tapping on the carburetor bowl, or removing the bowl to check?

IF it comes to that Moyer sells rebuild kits for the carburetor.

Also do a search on this site for carburetor as there are many other
posts from more knowledgeable people than I .


Regards
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-06-2010, 09:43 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
I'm thinking with that volume of leakage the problem has to be the float valve. It's either deteriorated or there's some debris in there preventing it from sealing and therefore allowing a siphon from the fuel tank. The carb needs to be removed and dismantled to get to the valve.

The visible area of leakage is where the fuel found a way out of the carb.

edit: Art beat me to the punch
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 69.177.115.232
Old 09-06-2010, 09:45 AM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 16
Thanked 578 Times in 405 Posts
If the carb is flooding, the gas is going to leak out the lowest point it can. I would expect it to leak out between the carb body and the flame arrestor, but if that has a good seal, then the choke shaft is next up.
Sounds like the float is no longer shutting off the float valve, and the bowl is overflowing. I would remove the carb (catching the gas) and rebuild it, including a new float valve. If you don't have a fuel filter inline, this would be a good time to add one.
Don't blow up your boat - be careful.

Al
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 09-06-2010, 09:58 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking shut of valve

You did not mention in your post but do you make a practice of shutting off the fuel at the tank each time you leave the boat? A good habit to get in to.
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 09-06-2010, 10:09 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking

Before you go removing the carb and doing a rebuild try running the engine again and observing if the leak occurs while the engine is running. It is possible that a small piece of material got into that needle and seat and held it open so fuel could get by and over time get enough fuel into the carb to spill into the bilge. You did not mention if you have a second fuel filter just before the carb. Most of us do and this helps keep junk from getting to the carb. I suggest you install that second filter, turn on the fuel and run the engine again. The blockage may clear itself and you save money and aggravation.
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-06-2010, 11:55 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Gasoline spills

I second Al's caution, leaking gasoline is very dangerous business.

One of the first items I bought for my boat was a Xintrex fume sniffer that interfaces with the bilge blower. In the event of gasoline spillage, the sniffer alarms and automatically turns on the blower. I had occasion to accidentally test it the last time I replaced my fuel filter cartridge. I fumbled the old cartridge into the bilge upside down spilling its contents. Within 30 seconds the sniffer alarmed and the blower did its duty.

I leave the sniffer armed at all times, when I'm not there too. It's a sentinel that's on guard when I can't be.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 68.173.38.216
Old 09-06-2010, 12:21 PM
CalebD's Avatar
CalebD CalebD is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 899
Thanks: 18
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
Another thing you can try is to drain your carb by removing the main passage plug if you can reach it. I think it is a 1/2" bolt at the aft end of the carb in this picture: http://www.moyermarine.com/360/r2z1.html A few ounces of fuel should leak out which you may be able to catch in a container. Sometimes this is enough to free up the float valve needle and seat.
Once you drain the carb a few gentle whacks with a screwdriver handle on the main carb bowl (just forward of the drain plug in pic) can also help dislodge a blockage. Eventually you'll have to remove the carb for a cleaning but hopefully not today.
I'll second what Hanley said about making it a practice of shutting off your main fuel valve (petcock) each time you leave your boat. If you leave your ignition keys hung on this valve then you will always remember to turn it on before starting the engine.
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.209.170.115
Old 09-07-2010, 07:07 AM
sproption sproption is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 39
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK...wow. Thanks guys!

I do not have a second fuel filter...that was a winter to do.

Thanks for your hypothesis. Most of you came to the same conclusion, which really helps me! I will try to free without removing first.

I was in the habit of shutting off my fuel valve and running dry when I was done with my engine, when another A-4 owner told me that wasn't necessary. I will go back to that habit.

Matt
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 144.230.63.57
Old 05-02-2011, 02:40 PM
pallen58's Avatar
pallen58 pallen58 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Leawood KS
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lost in Kansas- Leaking carburetor

Last week I finished updating the fuel system. I ran the engine for 15 minutes and all was well. One minor leak at the shut off valve but all seemed good.
Saturday the skipper showed with some of her friends and wanted to go sailing. The engine started and ran 2 minutes with good indications and then died. Winds right so we just sailed in and out of the slip. Not long after we started the skipper said the was a very strong smell of gas. A quick check showed that we were leaking from the carburator. I too have an E29 and this is the one side of the engine you just can't get to or see. It leaked more when we heeled to port. We cut a beer can in half to capture gas and stayed on a starboard tack. Once back in the slip it kept up a slow drip. Fuel shut off was closed. I did not have a computer so I could not access the site. Not wanting to create a floating Malatov Cocktail I brought out my trusty manual and figured I need to take the carb off. Not knowing specifically, and it isn't labeled, I don't know if I did that 100% correctly. I was not sure what the throttle valve and and lever were. Or the choke lever valve. What I did was disconnect the fuel line, disconnected the throttle cable, choke cable and scavenger tube(?) I think that is what that tube is. I then undid the two bolts on the top and it came out. The whole carb and I now know the flame arrestor.
And there is no more fuel leaking in the boat.
The question is what do I do now?
I gather from the threads I can either clean it up or buy the kit.
I've never worked on a carb before so I am now at my absolute limit.
Here is a picture of the carb and flame arrestor.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 209.124.198.180
Old 05-02-2011, 05:56 PM
Will Jacocks's Avatar
Will Jacocks Will Jacocks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Geismar, LA
Posts: 133
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Get the kit! I am sure you can find a good friend or two that would love to play with your carb and get it humming again!
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 05-02-2011, 08:54 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Smile Options.

That's an easy carb to work on even at home. I think one of the guys asked if you have a friend that's a bit of a gear head...if so, that would be perfect. You can rebuild it yourself though.

If you are really concerned bring it to a shop. A small engine repair guy could sort that out in about an hour...that would be your gasket faces all cleaned and new ones back in, jets cleaned and blown out with air, float and valve set up...all good to go.

Some new mechanics have never worked on carbs, however, the small engine guys do. Bring the manual and watch how he does it because the next time you get dirt etc you can do it. No gaskets sealers or compounds on those gaskets..put them in just as they are.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 98.188.254.163
Old 05-02-2011, 11:14 PM
Bold Rascal's Avatar
Bold Rascal Bold Rascal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Princess Anne, MD
Posts: 302
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Had the same same concerns as you regarding an attempt at a rebuild. I bought the kit from MMI and it took about 4 hours. The kit comes with the same step by step instructions as found in the MMI overhaul manual. You can do it, just take your time.
__________________
Mike, Slower-Lower Eastern shore, MD
1973 Pearson 33
1967 Bristol 27
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 166.205.137.254
Old 05-02-2011, 11:31 PM
seascott's Avatar
seascott seascott is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I rebuilt mine. I think if I can do it, anyone can. Mine finally runs on the bench great. The carb is pretty simple.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 68.173.38.216
Old 05-02-2011, 11:48 PM
CalebD's Avatar
CalebD CalebD is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 899
Thanks: 18
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
Every engine is a little different but mostly they are the same.
On my engine the carb looks similar but is an aluminum Zenith carb with an old style air intake/flame arrestor that is oriented in the vertical axis as opposed to facing up or horizontal like pallen58's. I've had fuel leak out of the flame arrestor AND the choke mechanism before.
The float valve is frequently the culprit but not a problem lately since we rigidly stick to shutting the main fuel valve off when leaving the boat.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
gas leak at choke lever rondahart Troubleshooting 8 09-10-2021 09:35 PM
Carb Choke cable retention Tommmmd Fuel System 6 04-28-2010 01:34 PM
engine needs full choke to run - but brand new carb fixxxer0 Troubleshooting 18 09-06-2009 09:10 AM
Leaking carb JackConnick Fuel System 2 07-27-2006 03:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved