Be a seaman, not a headline.

[Mo]

Please accept this in the spirit it’s intended. Even though our contact is entirely electronic I think of you like a brother.

We go to sea for recreation which makes every excursion optional. A forecast of strong winds should at least give you pause. If the forecast has a history of underestimation as it appears it did this time that ratchets up the pause to another level.

If the decision is still to go out, at a minimum there should be a reef in the main before you leave the dock, maybe two. They're a lot easier to shake out than to tuck in. Sailing solo in those conditions you do not want to be scrambling around the deck tucking in a reef too late. You should be in a harness and tethered, no question. As we’ve discussed before, the stern swim ladder should have a release rigged. PFD is mandatory. Some kinda recreation, huh? Other boats in the area have crew in the water and you're out there solo? Good grief!

Remember the mantra from my dive instructor 32 years ago? A good diver knows when not to dive. My friend, my brutha, you had no business being out there.

Point Taken Neil...no worries. It was me and another boat (STV Tuna) going around the islands. The rest of the sail was pretty good actually I'll sail in 20 to 25 any time. Genarally we can get it with the threat of rain, squalls and T-storms.

When I got back in the guys that go South to the Carribean say it happens frequently down there....sailing in a nice breeze then it turns wild for a bit...then it passes.

[Mo]

Mo, I would sail with you anytime. Our boats are made to take all sorts of weather. We need to get experience to be able to deal with rough conditions.

I am mostly a fair weather sailor, but wish I was more experienced with heavy weather. To me, a real sailor is one that goes sailing when he wants, not when the weather is good. Yes I know that sounds silly, but that is me...LOL

My hero, Hal Roth, sailed in all kinds of weather, and enjoyed it, because he was prepared.

Safety? Ever read a sailing magazine? They want to sell us all sorts of stuff. I am sure everyone knows. We make our own decision about what we think is safe.

I agree with the OP. The problem is that reality gets in the way. We sail for fun. The kind of fun that we can have on the weekends and holidays. We cant become that blue water, offshore sailor of legend.

I try to make myself and my boat as ready for all conditions that I can. It will take me a lifetime to succeed.

True as well, I don't mind 20 to 25 kts...over that it becomes too much work ... literally. But if you don't sail in it you won't be comfortable in it. Now if I ever get caught in something like that again I'll know it better...for sure.

Trying to think what I'd do different from yesterday besides making sure those lazarettes hatches stay closed. Being alone I don't think I could furl the jib that fast. From the time I saw the heavy rain(it had been raining all day),and realized it for what it was, was about 1 minute...But already alone on a moving boat at 6-7 kts close hauled in 20-25 kts. So my control is crack the main (it did have 1st reef Neil) and or jib...I thought about cracking the jib but turned onto the wind with it instead...the boat got knocked down but came right back up and sailed on.

This whole thing happened and was over within a short period. I continued to sail for a couple of hours after that....left the dock @1150 and returned @ 1630 hrs. The knock down occurred around 1500h or so...it's not like it was blowing like that all day.

RC ... I agree that we need some exposure to weather but make sure the boat is ready for it (like the lazarettes can't pop open in a knockdown and get your stuff wet). Learn how to handle the boat and know what it will do for you...and learn it's flaws. But it is a gradual experience builder...I edged my way up to sailing in the weather I'll go out in and me and the boat did it together...boat told me yesterday "don't be too cocky" ... and it was indeed above my comfort zone. Can't say I got scared but there was definately that moment of ***!

[Laker]

Tough act to follow , but I will add this:

Some years back I was entering our harbor gap when under power when the engine stopped abruptly. My main was covered and my anchor gear was in a locker. I was about 2 minutes from laying up against a rocky breakwater in 2 ft chop. Opening the locker and seeing my ground tackle "integrated" with a bunch of other gear , I opted for the mainsail. I tore into the mainsail cover and managed to get a sack of s**t main up which enabled to reach away from the rocks with about 2-3 beam widths to spare. I still remember how much my heart was racing.

That experience stuck with me. For years I have had a hook at the ready , albeit in a rather half-ass hanging-on-the-bow pulpit fashion. Just before launch this year I installed a permanent ss bow roller. Now I feel better.

Maybe instead of throwing out the pulpit hangers , I should use them in developing an emergency stern hook...

CK

[ndutton]

I didn't mean to suggest 20-25 knot winds were excessive (it blows like that every afternoon inside Los Angeles outer harbor, it's our normal) but gusts forecast to 30 knots that are actually over 50 knots are another matter entirely.

Another question that arises is can you trust the forecast in your area? Our marine forecast locally is usually pretty accurate.

[Dave Neptune]

Singlehanding

I, too do a lot of singlehanding and fully understand the possibilities. I have stayed home many times when I saw 25 in the forecast just because of comfort and I can always go next weekend. I have had times when I needed to be somewhere and made the CHOICE to go. I have left the LA Harbor more than once singlehanded with over 30 and have even done so far more than once with the square flags flying. I can't say these were good decisions but I made them and delt with them as necessary aboard. Being ready when you have time to consider the weather is easy compared to being out and getting caught. However either way you must perform so the boat will. Far more sailors leave there boats only to hear of them washing onshore somewhere months later. The boats are usually far tougher than a lot of sailors.

Note I spent many times going out on the water because it was gonna blow with a few sailing buddies just to gain experience in rough conditions.

I live by this "reef early and shake out late".

Dave Neptune

[Mo]

Tough act to follow , but I will add this:

Some years back I was entering our harbor gap when under power when the engine stopped abruptly. My main was covered and my anchor gear was in a locker. I was about 2 minutes from laying up against a rocky breakwater in 2 ft chop. Opening the locker and seeing my ground tackle "integrated" with a bunch of other gear , I opted for the mainsail. I tore into the mainsail cover and managed to get a sack of s**t main up which enabled to reach away from the rocks with about 2-3 beam widths to spare. I still remember how much my heart was racing.

That experience stuck with me. For years I have had a hook at the ready , albeit in a rather half-ass hanging-on-the-bow pulpit fashion. Just before launch this year I installed a permanent ss bow roller. Now I feel better.

Maybe instead of throwing out the pulpit hangers , I should use them in developing an emergency stern hook...

CK

I'd be in the same situation as you. Both my Bruce anchors are in the Prt Lazarette and I have to pull out a couple of fenders then remove the lashing on one of them, carrry to bow, shackle to rode...then deploy. It take forethought and preparation. I don't like the pulpit set up having one deploy off my 24 over 10 yrs ago.

I have an 18 inch extension roller / Bruce stowage / with A-kite pulley mount / bow sprit planned...all custom work but have to finish the design. The plan is to have it bolt on my toe rail about two feet back from the bow and extend out forward. Another 3 inch design plate will run bolted to the upper bow topside just below the toerail as well...they will run parallel. Every thing stainless, even the roller with a houser type fitting for the anchor rode to run through. My friend is a machinist and can make it at their shop....he's just waiting for me to get my head around what I want.

But getting back to your episode when the engine went out. Decisions are decisions and you made one that saved the boat and yourself...so it deserves a beer.

By the way, I took down the main underway as I approached the club yesterday...still blowing over 20 and it laid down real nice, wrapped it with sail ties, continued on auto on the jib toward the club, fired up the engine, furled the jib and laid the boat perfect in her dock...wind in my favor (perfect)...then went for a beer. It is nice when you go for the engine and it works.

Just a side note: Last Monday I did about a 50 miles sail on a Pearson 323 to bring her home after the owner had trouble last weekend. Nice boat but not an easy to sail boat...I don't have to leave my position behind the helm to work the main, or jib sheets. Can you imagine being on something (solo) and can't access control in a hurry. THAT is a stay on the dock situation.

[Mo]

I didn't mean to suggest 20-25 knot winds were excessive (it blows like that every afternoon inside Los Angeles outer harbor, it's our normal) but gusts forecast to 30 knots that are actually over 50 knots are another matter entirely.

Another question that arises is can you trust the forecast in your area? Our marine forecast locally is usually pretty accurate.

Ours is usually pretty close and that's why I didn't mind going out. I noticed the warmth hitting my face as this occurred as well. Wind was coming SW...what hit me was sort of like a shear or squall. That particular area is off a hook point of land about 6 miles long...will attach a google pic.

STV TUNA (Navy Sail trainer ... with a crew of 8) They saw me disappear in rain and when I reappeared didn't realize anything outlandish happened. I spoke with Henry over a beer yesterday evening. Henry was skippering Tuna and told one of the guys to "watch Mo" as the **** bared down on me.....300 feet away didn't get it near as bad. Henry is an ex-fighter pilot and Air Canada pilot ..and he knows weather. He felt some of these extremely warm gusts as well...actually we were experiencing them all afternoon and that one that knocked me down was just more intense.

The red line is the wind direction, at the end of of the line near the island is where I got hit. I noticed that is was going to gust up and saw the sheet of rain as it came past the point (the line passes close to the land there...distance about 1/4 mile or so. I was outbound...directly off to my right, near land was STV Tuna. In a short period of time, maybe 30 seconds or so, it became very clear that this little puff wasn't a little puff. In retrospect I remember rain pelting me hard in the face, feeling warm air (much warmer than the ambient temp), lost sight of the water due to the downpour, and an almost calm seemed to occur. I knew something was up and cracked the main and pinched up onto the wind...it happened that fast. Wind might have lasted 30 seconds to a minute at the most and it was over, boat was back up and sailing...

[Marian Claire]

"Another question that arises is can you trust the forecast in your area?"
Seems like they, NOAA, are more correct at low wind speeds < 15. When the forecast is 15 to 25 who knows. The problem in my area is that it can go from a nice sail to very messy with just 5 or 10 extra MPH. The wind can be dealt with by reefing but there is nothing to be done about the steep short period seas. Add to that that the MC has hank on head sails. So I, when single-handed, have to make the sail chose before I leave the dock. On that note I always have a sail ready to raise and an anchor ready to drop before I leave the slip. Edit: I have also rigged the MC so that I can raise and lower the head sail and main from the cockpit. Never unhooking from my tether.
"Passage weather" does a good job IMO.
Do not know if it was just a fluke or not but the local forecast in the Abacos was off almost everyday I was there. Not talking about 5 mph off. Try 15 mph and 180 degrees. Listening to other cruisers proved to be the best source.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[romantic comedy]

I think that the forecasts are amazing, and accurate. They can tell us the winds and temp many days out.

There are local seasonal variations that cant be forecast accurately. I am talking about the summer squalls. If you know anything about the area, then you know the usual weather.

for instance, on the Chesapeake, there are summer squalls. It is very local. You need to know that a suall can happen, and be prepared. These are easily seen coming, so they are easy to deal with.

Here in SW Florida, we have summer weather. We know that there will be clouds, and the possibility of a T storm everyday. In the summer, sailing kinda sucks here. They can predict the fronts and storms very accurately.

In the winter (sailing season) I find the report to be very accurate. I really could not ask for better.

Once, when I sailed to Key West. That is a trip that takes me 80 miles out in the Gulf. The trip south was calm and as predicted. I listened to the forecast while I was there, watching about the trip North, to go home. They predicted some heavy weather coming in two days. I headed out at day break, for the 130 mile trip. When I got back to my safe harbor, and got anchored, the wind spun and came at 25 knots, like it was on a switch. That forecast was perfect!!! The temp dropped 25 degrees in 2 hours. I know I took a chance on that one. If that weather came early, I am sure I would have had to turn around and run back to Key West, to avoid beating for over 100 miles into huge seas.


They even have great graphics on the weather channel too. Can I mention the eye candy, that you dont get on the VHS.

[roadnsky]

Mo-
I'm mostly a solo sailor too...

In the summer months where I sail, I've learned to keep a wary eye out for similar "sneaky" winds.
The summer thunderstorms that build in the desert around here can easily push a wind front with gusts in the 50's and even 60's sometimes.
The advantage here is that you can "see" the wind coming much farther out.
Typically, the first thing to spot is the building thunderclouds.
Once I see that, depending how far out I am, that's when I make a decision to either head in or start prepping for the inevitable squall.

I'm also always watching in every direction for the telling dust clouds that warn of something strong coming.

Before I learned to spot these tell tails, I got knocked down a few times. Even ripped an old sail.
Let me tell you... THAT gets your attention!
I now can give myself a good 4-5 minutes to get prep'd for a coming blow.
My headsail isn't a roller, but I have it rigged to get it down and lashed quickly when I need to.
It still gets the blood pumping when I see that dark boiling water coming my way like a freight train.

It's during those times when I have to ride one out, that I really depend on my little A4 to make the difference.
Riding out a blow here with just sails can be very challenging because I'm surrounded by land.
Granted, it's usually miles away, but running along at 6-8 knots those miles disappear quickly and pretty soon you're looking at coming about.

As Neil advises, checking the forecast can sometimes keep me in the slip to do a chore or project.
But our weather forecasts in the summer are almost always the same, so if I wanna go out I have to always keep a wary watch.

[Mo]

Mo-
I'm mostly a solo sailor too...

In the summer months where I sail, I've learned to keep a wary eye out for similar "sneaky" winds.
The summer thunderstorms that build in the desert around here can easily push a wind front with gusts in the 50's and even 60's sometimes.
The advantage here is that you can "see" the wind coming much farther out.
Typically, the first thing to spot is the building thunderclouds.
Once I see that, depending how far out I am, that's when I make a decision to either head in or start prepping for the inevitable squall.

I'm also always watching in every direction for the telling dust clouds that warn of something strong coming.

Before I learned to spot these tell tails, I got knocked down a few times. Even ripped an old sail.
Let me tell you... THAT gets your attention!
I now can give myself a good 4-5 minutes to get prep'd for a coming blow.
My headsail isn't a roller, but I have it rigged to get it down and lashed quickly when I need to.
It still gets the blood pumping when I see that dark boiling water coming my way like a freight train.

It's during those times when I have to ride one out, that I really depend on my little A4 to make the difference.
Riding out a blow here with just sails can be very challenging because I'm surrounded by land.
Granted, it's usually miles away, but running along at 6-8 knots those miles disappear quickly and pretty soon you're looking at coming about.

As Neil advises, checking the forecast can sometimes keep me in the slip to do a chore or project.
But our weather forecasts in the summer are almost always the same, so if I wanna go out I have to always keep a wary watch.

I hear ya Jerry,
In 2009 I was caught offshore a ways and the wind came up gusting up to 45kts. Rode those conditions 4 hours and the boat was fine...I was tired but the boat was fine. I saw that coming and was able to get the main down, survival suit on, harness etc.

Yesterday's little incident was different. Winds were as forcasted...20 with gusts to 30 or so. Vis was 2 miles at the best with drizzle and rain but we had that period around 3pm where it really gusted up.

When that squall hit the boat didn't go over gently...it was slam. Winches were in the water, cockpit curtains underwater, water coming around the edge of the dodger (now flat in the water). Lazarette hatch flung open and water swuirlling by and in. Funny how it seemed in slow motion, I hooked my foot on the hatch and as it was heavy with water, raised my knee and closed it....stood straight up on the side there while still over turning the helm to port to keep her from crossing the wind...and then the wind let up, boat came up and sailed on.

I figure she took 10 gallons of water through the lazarette...half of it as she started righting herself....as she came up part way that whole seat on the low side was level across with a triangle of water sitting in it...it all drained into the lazarette.

I agree, it's nice to see them coming but I don't think I'll allow the incident to hold me back from taking advantage of a good sail. Learning experience and that's about the size of it. If I had even an unlocked lock through the lazarette latch I it would have been a minor technical difficulty...as it stood, I had a hugh hole in the boat for a few seconds that could be catastrophic if not closed promptly... the main reason I posted.

Lets face it guys...the ocean, she be nice ... BUT she will try and hand you your own ass if you give her a chance.

[msauntry]

A comment on the anchor ready to go...

A handy tip from my days on a Pearson Triton with no engine...

Had a 22lb Bruce anchor that sat nicely on a corner of the stern pulpit. The anchor chain ran outside the lifelines and standing rigging, nestled in the toerail. It was tied off at the bow.

To deploy, reach back and lift the anchor off the pulpit, let fall in water. The chain would automatically fall over the rounded toerail. The bruce would set instantly in the Chesapeake muck. This is practically an emergency brake since the boat would round up as soon as the anchor hit bottom.

Time to deploy about 5 seconds. Distance travelled from deployment... less than 60 ft. (30 ft. rode, 28 ft. boat). Couldn't ask for better than that!

Worked great when I singlehanded since I didn't have to leave the cockpit.
Micah

[Skywalker]

Checked in from Ohio. Nice thread guys!

Chris

[Mo]

Was talking to my friend at Coast Guard Hfx Traffic today...he made a call and gusts at lighthouse bank hit 45 kts there yesterday...at the time I got knocked down. Lighthouse bank is that little just of land coming off the island in the google pic about 800 feet from where I got laid over. Considering I was headed into the wind at between 6 and 7 kts my wind recording was taking in boat speed. So, mine hit 52 - 7 = 45 ... not that I could tell the difference

We used to have a site last year where you could go and look at the wind speed in real time and peak gusts, the time etc. That site is not operational anymore and I find it very hard to get accurate and realtime info anymore.

1315 it hit 38 kts then settled back to 22 gusting to 30
1440 gusted to 37
1502 gusted to 45..that's when I was right there.
1600 gusted to 51
1850 gusted to 57
Gusted between 40 and 50 until 2300

[domenic]

Think like an 1800 Sea Captain. People today get into trouble because they are thinking of their land life. "Have to get back to the dock so I can pick the kids up by five."
With sail, there is no time clock. Land means danger in bad weather. Engines are for getting in and out of the marina. Never think of an engine as safety.
Never sail into anything you can't sail out of. Learn damage control. If you don't know how to plug a one foot hole in your hull, learn before you go out. If you can keep her afloat your safe. If you have to go into the water...RIP.