Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Cooling System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 108.18.156.185
Old 03-31-2019, 11:43 AM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Gushing water near grease cup

Here we go again. I'm very new to this engine and engines in general, but I'm trying to learn. So far everyone here has been so helpful. Thank you!

I went out yesterday and after reinstalling the thermostat, replacing the spark plugs, etc, the engine started right up. After checking for leaks, I found this

There is a steady stream of water coming from just forward of the grease cup. I've attached a picture from the video I took. You might be able to view the video here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f6M...ew?usp=sharing

Any insights and help would be very appreciated!

Thanks!
Matt

1975 Sabre 28
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 03-31-2019, 12:03 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,360
Thanks: 131
Thanked 1,140 Times in 760 Posts
The only source of water in that area is from the pump body itself and is making its way out via either a damaged shaft seal or a freeze crack. If the budget allows this would be a great time to consider a new MMI 502 flange pump.
https://moyermarine.com/product/mmi-...p-csob_00_365/
You'd better check you oil for water contamination too.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Mattlurzo (03-31-2019)
  #3   IP: 108.18.156.185
Old 03-31-2019, 12:22 PM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
The only source of water in that area is from the pump body itself and is making its way out via either a damaged shaft seal or a freeze crack. If the budget allows this would be a great time to consider a new MMI 502 flange pump.
https://moyermarine.com/product/mmi-...p-csob_00_365/
You'd better check you oil for water contamination too.
Wow that's not the best news. The engine was winterized, but I was still worried about freezing because we had a few ridiculously cold days this winter.

When I feel back there, it feels like there's an opening where the water comes out that is an actual opening and not a crack. Does that make any sense? Is there an opening right there?
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 03-31-2019, 12:26 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,360
Thanks: 131
Thanked 1,140 Times in 760 Posts
Yes, the Oberdorfer 202M, the pump you have, has an opening in the casting on the bottom for the specific purpose of letting errant water out. There shouldn't be any water in that area to begin with.

If the pump housing is not cracked, the 202M can be rebuilt up to a point. The time will come that the impeller cavity is so worn that pump performance will fall off at which point you'll be buying a replacement anyway. Like I said, you can get out ahead of future repairs by replacing now.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 03-31-2019 at 12:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Mattlurzo (03-31-2019)
  #5   IP: 108.18.156.185
Old 03-31-2019, 01:43 PM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
I'll try to take out the old one and buy the new one. I'm sure there's a thread around here somewhere about this, but can you tell me, is it just those two bolts to remove it, along with what looks like two connections to the water?

Those bolts seem like they might be difficult to get to. it was hard enough just getting the camera back there. But I also see on my video that there's some kind of create-a-gasket residue on it, so it has been done before. If there's a trick to it besides a wrench, some PB Blaster, and brute strength, I'm interested to know!

Thanks so much for your help!
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 03-31-2019, 02:10 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,360
Thanks: 131
Thanked 1,140 Times in 760 Posts
Two bolts and two hoses, that's it. While your credit card is handy, consider MMI's extendo-bolt that was specifically designed to remedy the poor access of the bottom bolt.
https://moyermarine.com/product/lowe...lt-csob_10_89/

We have a saying around here, do it right and cry once. The money you spend now will pay dividends in the future.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Mattlurzo (03-31-2019), sastanley (04-05-2019)
  #7   IP: 71.38.87.228
Old 03-31-2019, 02:12 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boulder City, NV
Posts: 2,758
Thanks: 14
Thanked 184 Times in 134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattlurzo View Post
I'll try to take out the old one and buy the new one. I'm sure there's a thread around here somewhere about this, but can you tell me, is it just those two bolts to remove it, along with what looks like two connections to the water?

Those bolts seem like they might be difficult to get to. it was hard enough just getting the camera back there.
Yep, just the two bolts.
The lower one is notorious for being hard to get at.
Because of that, many of us have the Lower Extended Bolt sold here by our host.

EDIT: Neil was faster on the draw...
Attached Images
   
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30

Last edited by roadnsky; 03-31-2019 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to roadnsky For This Useful Post:
Mattlurzo (03-31-2019)
  #8   IP: 108.18.156.185
Old 03-31-2019, 03:24 PM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
EDIT: Neil was faster on the draw...[/QUOTE]

You had pics! You guys were both so helpful! This is the best community. I'm lucky to be a part of it.

Cheers fellas
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 151.188.105.174
Old 04-01-2019, 11:43 AM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Last question

I ordered the new one and the long bolt. Does anyone know the size of the bolts to attach it? I'm going to order a socket extender to get at the lower bolt.

Thanks again for all the help!
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 72.194.222.152
Old 04-01-2019, 05:10 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,014
Thanks: 35
Thanked 496 Times in 382 Posts
Remove the upper bolt first. If the lower bolt is not to tight you will be able to swing the pump outward, away from the engine, and have more access\ visibility to the lower bolt.
For the install I cut the head off a 3" bolt, hand tightened the resulting stud into the lower hole, slid the pump and gasket on it, then installed the upper bold and tightened it down tight enough so the pump would stay put, then removed the stud and start the lower bolt, then loosen both bolts and torque down evenly.
Happy wrenching.

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to JOHN COOKSON For This Useful Post:
Dave Neptune (04-03-2019), goodoldboat (04-03-2019), Mattlurzo (04-02-2019), msmith10 (04-01-2019), sastanley (04-05-2019), tenders (04-04-2019)
  #11   IP: 151.188.105.174
Old 04-03-2019, 09:44 AM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
Remove the upper bolt first. If the lower bolt is not to tight you will be able to swing the pump outward, away from the engine, and have more access\ visibility to the lower bolt.
For the install I cut the head off a 3" bolt, hand tightened the resulting stud into the lower hole, slid the pump and gasket on it, then installed the upper bold and tightened it down tight enough so the pump would stay put, then removed the stud and start the lower bolt, then loosen both bolts and torque down evenly.
Happy wrenching.

TRUE GRIT
Thanks! That's great advice!

Last edited by Mattlurzo; 04-03-2019 at 04:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 24.190.16.74
Old 04-03-2019, 07:56 PM
goodoldboat's Avatar
goodoldboat goodoldboat is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: CT
Posts: 104
Thanks: 65
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Smile water pump replacement

Santa brought me the new MM flange pump for Christmas , waiting for Spring to get to CT , so I can do the install .

I spayed PB blaster on the lower and upper bolts and both water hoses last week .

I had an idea to run engine to to temp prior to heat every thing up prior to removal ?

Good idea or bad ?

John +1 on the 3 inch bolt .. Good install tip .
__________________
S/V Gosling
Westport CT .

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing- as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 72.69.36.126
Old 04-04-2019, 07:31 AM
tenders tenders is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlem YC, City Island, NY
Posts: 1,294
Thanks: 26
Thanked 159 Times in 104 Posts
Heating up the engine probably isn't necessary; those bolts aren't typically frozen in place the way exhaust fasteners can be. They yield to reasonable force once you get a grip on them - it's just that getting the grip on the lower one is the hard part.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 151.188.105.174
Old 04-04-2019, 09:37 AM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoldboat View Post
Santa brought me the new MM flange pump for Christmas , waiting for Spring to get to CT , so I can do the install .

I spayed PB blaster on the lower and upper bolts and both water hoses last week .

I had an idea to run engine to to temp prior to heat every thing up prior to removal ?

Good idea or bad ?

John +1 on the 3 inch bolt .. Good install tip .
I'm not sure if your instructions came with this info, but mine had a small slip included that said to hand tighten the bolts and then run the engine for a minute to let the part settle into the correct position, turn off the engine and then finish tightening the bolts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mattlurzo For This Useful Post:
goodoldboat (04-04-2019)
  #15   IP: 67.86.161.229
Old 04-04-2019, 12:17 PM
goodoldboat's Avatar
goodoldboat goodoldboat is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: CT
Posts: 104
Thanks: 65
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
water pump install

I Dont rember seeing that , will recheck the box , thanks for the tip ..

I am not sure of the Bolt size .. but I am hoping the socket extender will do the trick .
__________________
S/V Gosling
Westport CT .

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing- as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 72.205.64.56
Old 04-04-2019, 01:39 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,014
Thanks: 35
Thanked 496 Times in 382 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoldboat View Post
I am not sure of the Bolt size .. but I am hoping the socket extender will do the trick .
A 3/8 socket on a short extension works for me on the lower bolt. I go buy feel. It's easy for me because I've done it many times. I can see how it could be a bit challenging if you have never loosened the lower water pump bolt.

Hint: Put the socket on the extension and go by feel until the socket is on the bolt then click the racket into the extension and twist. Works for the install also.

TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 04-04-2019 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Not fully awake yet!!! Or is this a dream?
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JOHN COOKSON For This Useful Post:
goodoldboat (04-04-2019), GregH (04-04-2019), Mattlurzo (04-05-2019)
  #17   IP: 67.86.161.229
Old 04-04-2019, 03:03 PM
goodoldboat's Avatar
goodoldboat goodoldboat is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: CT
Posts: 104
Thanks: 65
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
gasket

I was just thinking about the remaining gasket material that may or not be adhered to the engine block ...


what is the best way to remove the remaining material , I am thinking that this Pump is on the engine since 1977 ..
__________________
S/V Gosling
Westport CT .

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing- as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 72.205.64.56
Old 04-04-2019, 07:30 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,014
Thanks: 35
Thanked 496 Times in 382 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoldboat View Post
I was just thinking about the remaining gasket material that may or not be adhered to the engine block ...
what is the best way to remove the remaining material , I am thinking that this Pump is on the engine since 1977 ..
Very carefully.

I don't think you will have a problem. If you do have to scrape first try something softer than brass to scrape with; maybe a plastic or wood wedge. If there is any thin film left acetone on a green 3M pad might work.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: The engine is steel so you can be a bit rougher with it if any gasket is stuck to it.

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 04-04-2019 at 11:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JOHN COOKSON For This Useful Post:
goodoldboat (04-04-2019), Mattlurzo (04-05-2019)
  #19   IP: 151.188.105.174
Old 04-05-2019, 11:58 AM
Mattlurzo Mattlurzo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 22
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoldboat View Post
I Dont remember seeing that , will recheck the box , thanks for the tip ..
Here are the extra instructions I found in the box, just in case you don't have it.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mattlurzo For This Useful Post:
goodoldboat (04-05-2019), GregH (04-05-2019)
  #20   IP: 24.190.16.74
Old 04-15-2019, 11:04 AM
goodoldboat's Avatar
goodoldboat goodoldboat is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: CT
Posts: 104
Thanks: 65
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
water pump install

Both upper and lower pump bolts are frozen really well , I sprayed with PB
Blaster and will let them sit for 48 hours .

I will go down and try again on Wednesday and bring a a torch if i need it .

I think that lower unit extension bolt is in my future MMI order .
__________________
S/V Gosling
Westport CT .

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing- as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 70.185.132.18
Old 04-15-2019, 03:14 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,014
Thanks: 35
Thanked 496 Times in 382 Posts
Tap on the bolts after you spray them with PB Blaster.

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 67.86.161.229
Old 04-16-2019, 11:29 AM
goodoldboat's Avatar
goodoldboat goodoldboat is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: CT
Posts: 104
Thanks: 65
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
water pump replacement

Good Tip thanks ... i will let you know ...

I think the pump has been leaking slowly for a while .. the lower bolt is pretty corroded ..

Not enough that any water accumulated , but enough to form rust .
__________________
S/V Gosling
Westport CT .

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing- as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Introduction/question from rhcranejr Administrator Introductions 2 03-10-2013 08:19 PM
re-plumbing for hot water heater operation Jesse Delanoy Cooling System 10 04-21-2008 08:05 PM
acid flush of Fresh water cooled engine skhorleb Cooling System 1 01-16-2007 10:07 AM
Another ethanol question Bob N Fuel System 7 01-07-2007 06:22 PM
Water in Cyl Paul A Troubleshooting 2 07-18-2006 05:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2019 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved