For Sale: Atomic 4 Gas Engine in Excellent running condition in boat

**Baltimore Sailor** · 12-29-2009, 08:53 PM

Goodness gracious. You've got a perfectly-running pinup-quality A4 in your boat and you want to dump it for an expensive, smelly, noisy diesel?

What on Earth for? Seriously. Were you talked into this by your sailing peers? Did you inherit and are looking for ways to get rid of the money?

I think an intervention is called for. Anyone live close by?

**Administrator** · 12-29-2009, 09:14 PM

Anybody notice the "hot spot" on the manifold mentioned in a separate thread?

Bill

**Baltimore Sailor** · 12-29-2009, 11:14 PM

Yep. I've got one on my engine too, and it runs as cool as the other side of the pillow. Well, actually right at 160 or so.

I think it's just the way those engines roll.

**roadnsky** · 12-30-2009, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by Baltimore Sailor View Post

Goodness gracious. You've got a perfectly-running pinup-quality A4 in your boat and you want to dump it for an expensive, smelly, noisy diesel?
What on Earth for? Seriously. Were you talked into this by your sailing peers? Did you inherit and are looking for ways to get rid of the money?
I think an intervention is called for. Anyone live close by?

Man, I strongly second Baltimore's admonition (advisement, advocacy, caution, charge, consultation, counsel, direction, dissuasion, encouragement, exhortation, forewarning, guidance, help, information, injunction, input, instruction, judgment, lesson, news, opinion, persuasion, prescription, proposal, proposition, recommendation, steer, suggestion, teaching, telltale, tidings, tip, tip-off, two cents' worth, view, warning, word, word to the wise)

Why would you do that?!
I may swing by and pick up Neil and we'll come up there and "intervene"?

**ndutton** · 12-30-2009, 01:10 AM

Dude, sounds like you swallowed a dictionary.

There's a long held belief by some that gasoline has no place on a boat and resale values bear this out. The hypocrisy of it all is these same boats often use propane as their cooking fuel - similar explosive force, heavier than air and worst of all, stored under pressure. Somehow, that goes unnoticed.

SeaFever, we're all interested. As Balty pondered, why go through the hassle and expense of replacing a good running, reliable engine? And I'm curious, what kind of cooking fuel do you use?

**roadnsky** · 12-30-2009, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by ndutton View Post

Dude, sounds like you swallowed a dictionary.

Yeah, too much drink trying to drown out listening to my Father-in-Law explain things to me at dinner. (Another post for another site)
Apologies...

But seriously, SeaFever. Listen to the reason here...

**ndutton** · 12-30-2009, 01:38 AM

As long as father-in-law was buying, you get a pass.

**SeaFever** · 12-30-2009, 11:23 PM

For Sale: Atomic 4 Gas Engine in Excellent running condition in boat

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the feedback. I have used and maintained the A4 for a few years now and I love and admire it. I am not going to berate the A4 as it is a good engine. Believe me I have given this a good amount of thought and also I am not going to be spending a whole lot of money as I don't have much to spare...

I took my time finding the right diesel engine at the right price. I also am going to do a lot of the work myself to save money. I have acquired a Universal M25 3 cyl diesel and have been working on it in my garage for the last 6-8 months. The M25s were used by Catalina 30/34/36s and a M25XP is still in production. The M25 is a Kubota 850 engine so I am able to get most parts at a great price from Kubota. Luckily I got a engine in great condition that shows factory spec compression on all cylinders and one that fits on my 11.5" center to center stringers and is sized right to fit in my boat. I will have to add some height on the stringers perhaps but that is easy.

I would like to do some long distance cruising and also a bit more torque at low rpm would be helpful. Note that I have a hard mounted 1:1 gear straight A4. Even though my engine runs smoothly the diesel is not going to have more vibration than the A4 given the fact that I will have mounting bolts. The 2:1 Tx will allow for a larger prop (maybe a 14x10 instead of the current 12x7) to push my 12500 Lb displacement hull.

There is a reason why there are few gas engines in production for sailboats today and that most, if not all, sailboat builders use diesels these days.

I am confident that my A4 will provide a good reliable and cheap alternative to anyone needing a replacement as compared to buying a rebuilt one or an unknown condition one to rebuild. I would appreciate you guys more experienced than me letting me know what would be a good price for my A4 so I don't leave money on the table.

I am grateful for all the advice and welcome anyone who wants to visit me here in Oakland, CA. I am technical so I will welcome and enjoy the discussion. Please use my email in the first posting to contact me. I will be happy to show you my boat and we can have a meal together.

Cheers.

**roadnsky** · 12-30-2009, 11:53 PM

SF-
All good solid reasons for making your decision. Best of luck.
Sorry to see you leave our band of gypsies...

**ndutton** · 12-31-2009, 12:13 AM

SeaFever,

My goal is not to change your mind. You've thought this out thoroughly and you've got to do what's right for you.

You made a comment, though, that caught my eye:

There is a reason why there are few gas engines in production for sailboats today and that most, if not all, sailboat builders use diesels these days.

I expect there are several reasons:
1. The boatbuying public has bought into the diesel superiority argument and because of this -
2. Sailboats with diesels have higher resale value.
3. Boatbuilders cater to their buyers or they don't sell boats.
4. There are no longer any gas auxiliaries that compare to the now discontinued Atomic 4 (in my opinion, there never were, including the Palmer P60 or the open flywheel Volvo MB-10 which I doubt anyone on this forum has even heard of).

At least that's the current situation as I see it.

Looking at fiberglass sailboats dating back to their heyday of the early 70's, the venerable Catalina 30, the most prolific 30 footer in history with somewhere around 8000 boats produced, was originally designed around the Atomic 4. When diesels became popular with buyers, Catalina tried several models with varying levels of success, both in fit and performance. It took them quite a while to find a suitable diesel replacement for the A4. I admit when I bought my boat a few years ago, I figured I'd get the useful life out of my 30+ year old engine and then change to a diesel.

Four years later, I hope that day never comes.

**SeaFever** · 01-02-2010, 02:13 AM

Hi Niel,

I agree with your points and assessment of the market situation. I am quite sure your A4 will provide you with many more years of service. With the help of people like Don Moyer A4 users keep getting quality parts at reasonable prices, which is a great thing.

Let me know if you guys want to get together. I look forward to meeting and speaking with you guys. It will be fun, we go out on a sail in SF bay.

Happy New Year and cheers for now.

**ndutton** · 01-02-2010, 06:02 PM

SF,

You've asked about a reasonable market price for your A4. Currently there's a M25XP for $4K, a 5411 for $2700 and a 5416 for $3400, all of these are diesels comparable to the A4 and professionally remanufactured. There's an as-is 5416 available for $2500.

I've seen as-is A4's in various conditions priced from $250 (dog butt ugly) to around $1300 with most in the middle range, around $800 or so.

My point in mentioning the diesels is if you price yourself in that range, many will opt for the diesel for reasons posted earlier by both of us.

This certainly isn't the last word, just what I've seen around.

**Out Patient** · 01-04-2010, 05:38 PM

Interested

I am interested. I am SOCAL.

**SeaFever** · 01-09-2010, 05:54 PM

Hi Outpatient,

Feel free to email me at my email address in the original posting or PM (private message) me.

Thanks,

Mahendra

For Sale: Atomic 4 Gas Engine in Excellent running condition in boat

For Sale: Atomic 4 Gas Engine in Excellent running condition in boat

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