#51
IP: 24.152.131.153
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Quote:
In time it will finally degrade to a point that . . . . aw, never mind.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#52
IP: 174.61.235.18
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R Terminal
Ok, as I said I narrowed it down to:
Hot wired: starts fine. No hot wire, a lot of cranking. As before; new batteries, coil, plugs. I have magnetic ignition. Rewired "purple" wire with about 7' of #14. Battery wires to and from were replaced a while back and all are in good shape and inspected. I get a good strong spark from the coil. The fact that the boat starts fine while hotwired eliminates them. I did notice quite a bit of voltage drop-off while cranking - (starter??). Late model engine. I looked at the solenoid yesterday and it's all late-model, but other than the "S" term with the white wire, and the larger Battery term, there was another term, sort of in-between in size that had some sort of rubber piece on it. Hard to see, exactly as I was using a mirror, access is poor. I'm thinking this is an external ground to the starter? But I didn't think the later models had those. I'm a little confused that there is an "R" terminal... ...and sure, I want to fix it right... So I think what I'm down to is that the ignition goes through the instrument panel, jumps from gauge to gauge with #12 wire with the white wire on the first one (or last one). I think I should replace the white wire, and maybe also run a jumper around the gauges, as well as leaving them wired. I mean there's not much left, and with the hot-wire acid test that sort of narrows it down, right?? Jack |
#53
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Quote:
Problem(s) solved. TRUE GRIT |
#54
IP: 216.81.94.72
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Quote:
Started my A4 up for the first time this spring and measured 13.x volts at battery-- gotta recheck my alternator wiring and see what's amiss. --Normally measures 14.x on mine.
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JonnyQuest Boatless right now. (Last boat, a fine 27' O'Day 1975) MS Gulf Coast |
#55
IP: 174.61.235.18
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More discoussion with Don
He seems to think if it's running fine after starting that the starter is drawing too many amps while cranking and is making a weak circuit bad. Sound like I need to pull and check the starter... groan.
Jack |
#56
IP: 216.81.94.72
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With all the checks you have done so far and replacing with new batteries, checking the starter sounds reasonable. I pulled mine and took it to a local shop for bench testing last fall. My problem was bad batteries, which you have eliminated from your list of suspects.
While the starter was off I gave the exposed area of the engine behind the starter a good knock down with a wire brush and degreaser and touched up the paint. Good opportunity.
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JonnyQuest Boatless right now. (Last boat, a fine 27' O'Day 1975) MS Gulf Coast |
#57
IP: 24.152.131.153
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Quote:
1. #14 wire from a battery post to the coil + terminal? or 2. Jumper from the battery post to the solenoid "S" terminal to activate starter?
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#58
IP: 174.61.235.18
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Neil;
Jumped from large battery connection of solenoid to + of coil. So essentially from battery to coil. Jack |
#59
IP: 24.152.131.153
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I don't understand the logic
Quote:
So the starter/solenoid/starter wiring is now suspect? I don't see why, it's working fine and the test with the hot wire proves it. Based solely on the successful hot wire test I'd replace the ignition wiring, the supply from the battery to the ignition switch (red), the load from the switch to the coil + (purple) and the switch itself. Make it as first class as you can. Red supply should be #10 minimum, I'd bump the purple load up to #12, tinned wire all around with terminals crimped, soldered and shrink tubed. The switch should be marine grade, if a combination start and ignition keyswitch, 30 amp rating would be nice.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 05-03-2014 at 08:26 AM. |
#60
IP: 161.213.49.150
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If you are resorting to jumper wires it's time to rewire. Here's why: If the wiring is in such poor shape that you need a jumper wire across part of it there is a very good probability that some other part of the wiring will go out soon. Usually at the most inopportune time............Been There. Done it. Didn't like it.
If you need coaching with soldering technique let us know. TRUE GRIT |
#61
IP: 174.61.235.18
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Don felt it was a combination of wiring and starter.
I've already replaced the purple wire, with new #14. I guess I could replace it again, but I doubt that's going to make much difference. I don't think there's a red wire to the switch only to the solenoid and it's all fairly new. The white wire is what's left to the S term - it's older #12. I need to take a look again at the circuit again. I just have an ignition switch and a push button. Jack |
#62
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Quote:
TRUE GRIT |
#63
IP: 24.152.131.153
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If your start switch is powered through the ignition switch I still like the 30 amp (DC) rating.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#64
IP: 166.147.120.48
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Neil, outstanding logic there regarding the hot wire usage actually indicating suspect ignition wiring!
Jack, before pulling your starter id probably go back and give a real hard look at the ignition circuitry and switch, paying particular attention to your connections. Don is certainly the guru but you may be missing something critical that he would notice in person-- like a wiring terminal connection. Johns advice to make this top notch is really good and will provide long term reliability that helps your future work. In my limited experience it's usually smaller things like marginal wiring and connections that are most of my trouble. Unfortunately I don't catch them until after wasting a bunch of time on other things first! ;-)
__________________
JonnyQuest Boatless right now. (Last boat, a fine 27' O'Day 1975) MS Gulf Coast |
#65
IP: 174.61.235.18
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Just to close this issue
Had the starter rebuilt (now I have an issue with it that I posted).
Then I replaced the "purple" 14 gauge wire with 12 gauge and it starts like a champ. Thanks for all the ideas and help. Jack |
#66
IP: 24.152.131.153
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Is this a late or early model starter/solenoid? I'm guessing late model Delco.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#67
IP: 107.0.6.242
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I doubt if upgrading that wire from #14 to #12 actually solved the problem. More likely there was a bad terminal or more at the ignition switch, or a faulty connection in a terminal which got corrected by changing the wire. I don't like those switches and have eliminated them from my boat.
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#68
IP: 174.61.235.18
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Late model Delco.
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