No Start, Broken exhaust Pipe and Leaky speedseal

[smosher]

HI, As the title says I have several issues, more if you ask my wife, these all took place on my way home to winter storage. Ran the engine day before, for 2 hrs to charge the batteries, ran fine, ran it for another 2 hrs before leaving the mooring to goto the fuel dock. When I 1st start the engine I always look in the cave, P30, to look it over. Any case I didn't notice anything. Ran it about 1 1/2 to the fuel dock, ran ok. Filled full of gas, all of 9 gallons and wouldn't start. I did notice then water was covering the engine mostly on the port side. I then noticed the exhaust pipe was broke at the top of the run before the water injection. Called Tow Boat and they towed me home. At least I have a full tank of gas.

Tried to start the engine today and again no start, the plugs are very wet and maybe have 5 hrs on them. I have electronic ignition, about 5 years and a new this year coil. I have also put in new this year Carb and a electronic fuel pump, the pressure bulb is hard. I do have the old ignition plate with the breaker and points to see if that fixes it. I do need to install a remote way of starting the engine so I can see whats happening. Anyone have issues with the pertronix ignition kit ? I took off the dist cap and looked inside, didn't see anything weird, except maybe the dist will turn a small amount by twisting the rotor. I will replace the cap and rotor before I replace the ignition.

Since I cannot run the motor to winterize, I took out the impeller, I don't use a thermostat, and ran antifreeze from the manifold down through the engine. No matter how many times I tried to set the water pump cover I could not get it to seal correctly. Access in the P30 is done by feel for this. The little o ring is diffult to keep in the groove. I'm thinking of just cutting a gasket to replace the o ring. Anyone try this?

The last issue is the exhuast pipe I'm soaking the exhaust flange bolts in pb blaster and so far no joy. I do have good access to the exhaust manifold and from what I can see there's 3 bolts to remove. I've never taken any manifold off. I could use some tips to get this done the easiest way possible.

Thanks as always,

Steve

[67c&ccorv]

1. Use white lithium grease to hold the seal in place.

2. You say you replaced the coil this year - what kind of electronic ignition do you have and what type of coil did you install?

Cheers!

[smosher]

I have the Pertronix ignition from Moyer and the coil is a 3 ohm oil flamthrower.

The problem I have with the o ring is that it dislodges easily even with grease. To install the cover on the Pearson P30 is by feel so scraping the inside of the cover while installing happens all the time.

[roadnsky]

The problem I have with the o ring is that it dislodges easily even with grease. To install the cover on the Pearson P30 is by feel so scraping the inside of the cover while installing happens all the time.

If it's the MMI cover with the "captive" screws on it, can you hold that with one hand while using a mirror to see?
That O-Ring is important.

[roadnsky]

I did notice then water was covering the engine mostly on the port side. I then noticed the exhaust pipe was broke at the top of the run before the water injection.

Tried to start the engine today and again no start, the plugs are very wet and maybe have 5 hrs on them.

Steve-
Can you give more detail as to the engine getting flooded?!
That is more likely the cause of your non-starting situation...

[Dave Neptune]

Wet plugs????

Steve, bummer dude! How high was the water? Did it get to the distributor or the carb? Do you have spark?

I mounted a momentary switch directly to my starter so I can give the engine a spin without starting. I do this when the engine has set for a while (west coast winterizing) to get the oil where it needs to be. I must turn on the key to excite the ignition then I can use the remote to start as well, great set-up for diagnosing.

If you have spark and wet plugs here is a trick I learned while working as an outboard mechanic years ago~~~[B][I]HEAT THE PLUGS UP ON THE STOVE OR WITH A PROPANE TORCH~~~ do this until water will sizzle on them and install quickly with gloves finger tight and try to start immediately, if it doesn't fire soon repeat. The heated plugs will work much better if there is water or to much fuel in the cylinder. This will save time trying to start a wet engine! You can also open the gap another .010" or more to aid in starting, then close back up. I actually run my RJ-12 plugs at .040 since going to the electronic ignition, faster starts and better idle.

If you have water in the engine get it started to dry it out before putting it away, you don't want the rings stuck to the walls to start the season.

Also do not cut a gasket to make instalation easier as it will change the spacing that the impeller runs in and it will not pump efficiently due to to much "side" clearance.

If it's wet inside get her dry, it will make next season's START (of the A-4) much easier. You can fix the exhaust during the winter. Ah winter, it's in the mid 60's today and were going sailing.

Good luck Dave Neptune

[smosher]

Hey Dave, Looks like the exhaust pipe cracked and spewed water all around the engine. I;m thnking that with the cracked pipe there wasn't enough pressure to push the water out of the muffler, which caused the water to get into the exhaust. The pipe was cracked but not separated.
Its now fully separated.

Today, I took off the carb, it was full of water, pulled the plugs and spun the motor. Put in some old plugs I had as they were dry and eventually got it running. Check the oil and it was very milky. Did the oil change 3 times and now its clear. Motor seems to run pretty good. Would restart every time with 15 or so seconds. The exhaust pipe is open and I'm running the hot water to a sink

So since I got this far I figured I'd run antifreeze into the motor. Wouldn't pull the anitfreeze out of the jug. Oh well there's always something. Went home.

I did cut a gasket and maybe thats my issue with the antifreeze. Didn't have a problem with cooling the engine using seawater, water temp though is in the 50's.

As I was changing the oil I tried a couple of times to remove the exhaust flange. Been trying pb blaster and when the motor was hot, still no luck. PB Blaster stinks to high heaven when the exhaust gets warm.

Thanks again for your comments It's appreciated.

Steve

[sastanley]

Hang in there Steve. Sounds like you are making progress!!

As Dave commented, the key is to get the moisture out of the places it shouldn't be, the crankcase, and combustion chamber. The rest we can be dealt with.

As a side note, for years and years the P.O. of my boat 'winterized' the motor (mid-Chesapeake, definitely gets below freezing here) by draining the block and spraying some Seafoam in the carb. My point is that although I do not plan to do it this way, getting the raw water out so it can't do damage if it expands and freezes is better than doing nothing.

[Dave Neptune]

Stuck studs

Steve, for what it is worth~~~try applying some torque to the offending nuts and at the same time give a good solid smack with a hammer (preferably a brass one or be careful not to muishroom the stud) to "shatter the rust" at the same time. You are fighting rust so some hot/cold cycling will aid in sucking some of the penetrating oil into the threads. You can heat cycle by placing a drop light near the area to warm and then spray and allow to cool~~repeat. Also don't forget to apply torque a little in the "wrong tightening direction" once in a while when attempting to break the nuts loose. Sometimes that will break them loose faster by rocking back and fourth especially after it has started to yield to loosening.

Good job getting her dry, you should have no internal rusting water damage issues now.

Dave Neptune

[smosher]

another day another attempt

Went back to the boat today, it was hauled out on Monday. I replaced my homemade gasket with the o ring and tried to start the motor, wouldn't start. Took the carb off and opened it up and there was a jelly substance clogging the idle jet. I am assuming this is some of the water left over from last week. FWIW I do use STARTRON. Flushed it out with carb cleaner and the motor started. I was able to suck in antifreeze and winterize the motor.

Tried again to remove the exhaust flange bolts and still stuck. Squited more pb blaster on the bolts. Next week I'm gonna try my breaker bar and see if that gets them to move. So Far I'm just using my socket wrench.

Steve

[smosher]

Followup

So During the winter on a nice day I went to the boat and removed the manifold. Took it to a machine shop and he removed both bolts, for $ 20.
Ordered parts from Moyer including new impellar and pipe from ace h/w. Since
the exhaust was out of the way I also removed the water pump for rebuild.
The water pump was a difficult getting out, the lower bolt. The inner seal
of course was a pain. Rebuilt the pump and reinstalled with all new hoses. Next was to reinstall the manifold and install new exhaust, I did use high temp sealer on the manifold. This went pretty easy and I used all new hoses
here too. Since I had the carb off I opened it up and gave it a quick clean.
Replaced the Fram filter with a racor. Finished all this work last weekend

Today was the moment of truth, and after priming the system she started right up and ran nice, really nice. I was suprised when it caught right away. I ran it for about 1/2 hr on the hard, no problem with sucking water up from the bucket. I had an issue last fall and it appears I had a defective new impellar. The speedseal doesn't leak I used a new o ring, fits in the groove like it should.

Thanks to everyone for your words and advice and I thoought I'd let folks know the "rest of the story"

Steve

[CalebD]

Nice report.

One of the things I love about this forum is keeping my 43 year old engine ticking with the good advice of Don, Ken et al AND the folks on this forum. It is also great when folks report back their results which I think is very important.
Thanks for the follow up. Any pics?

[Richard Gressle]

The back end

We have now repalced everyhting (carb, coil, ignition, leads, plugs, fuel filters) and the same scenario develops: A-4 runs perfectly in idle and can limp 200 yards then dies. We will now run through the exhaust system which may be smothering the plugs. Any other advice???????

[ndutton]

Richard,

Have you determined what's lacking when it dies (spark, fuel, neither)? Assuming neither, with all the parts you've changed , there's not much left besides systems external to the engine.

[Richard Gressle]

We were driven to this conclusion because everything else works and works well. Engine starts easily, idles well, and comes up quickly to 160 degrees (fresh water system installed last year and electronic ignition this year). The carb is new with the new fuel filters. We checked the compression on all the cylinders and it is correct to the MM manual. When the power train is engaged the engine labors to make any speed at all, and when taken out of gear, she races. After Don Moyer's comments on the Spring Commissioning, we think this is the next thing on the list. Agree?