Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Overhaul

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #301   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-13-2011, 05:45 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
IF you have a Motorola alternator, the yellow wire goes to the coil positive, the smaller red wire goes to the field terminal on the alternator as pictured, the black wire goes to the alternator ground terminal. Schematic pdf attached at the end.


photo credit - rigspelt


photo credit - sastanley

Name:  Motorola Alternator.jpg
Views: 6561
Size:  72.7 KB
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Basic Engine Wiring with electric fuel pump.pdf (38.3 KB, 615 views)
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 09-13-2011 at 05:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #302   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 09-13-2011, 09:16 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Bill, are you chasing wire through a copper pipe?
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #303   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 09-13-2011, 09:21 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpian0923 View Post
Bill, are you chasing wire through a copper pipe?
No.

Are you referring to that copper pipe that sticks up at an angle to the left of the engine?

If so, that's for the centerboard pennant.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #304   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 09-13-2011, 09:38 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Good thing! Yes, that's what I was referring to.
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #305   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 09-16-2011, 01:35 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Here is what I promised...days ago, I think.
This is just my opinion though.

[YOUTUBE]QxEWa9FTqxo[/YOUTUBE]

Mind you, this is one handed, holding the camera with the other. Two handed it's easier. ...I swear!

I know you will do what you want though. .. as you should.

Don't call me out on this, else, next West Coast Afourian Conference, I'll come get you!
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #306   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 09-16-2011, 08:14 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Oh, I have no problem with how I'll hold the bulkhead on - I plan on just using a few stainless machine screws with washers and T-nuts on the other side.

The issue for me is how to hang the heat exchanger and expansion bottle on the back of the bulkhead in a way that I can quickly and easily "unhang" them.

I've got some ideas.

But I'm still trying to decide how much I really want or need to make the bulkhead quickly and easily removable. There is enough access from above that I really shouldn't need to get the bulkhead off to do most things - I can add oil, suck the old oil out, get at the carb, get at the spark plugs and distributor, etc., without having to yank the bulkhead out of the way.

I'll give it some more thought and see what I can rig up for the HX and expansion bottle. Like I said, I've already got some ideas.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #307   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-16-2011, 09:14 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Bill,

I seem to recall you commenting on the excellent engine access we Catalina 30 owners enjoy. Well, we have structure right in front of the flywheel that is fixed in place, not removable at all. Maybe making your bulkhead easily removable isn't all that necessary.

For mounting the exchanger and other things, consider the Unistrut system. It's a metal track (available in stainless) with a variety of devices that clamp into it. McMaster-Carr has it available in short lengths.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#strut-channel-systems/=e34ra1
Attached Images
 
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #308   IP: 193.253.220.149
Old 09-16-2011, 09:30 AM
Kelly's Avatar
Kelly Kelly is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brest, France
Posts: 663
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
coolant hose nipple

Just a quick question, Neil...why did you need or want to use the coolant hose nipple just before your electric pump?
__________________
Kelly

1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda Ketch, Wind and Atomic powered

Reply With Quote
  #309   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-16-2011, 09:56 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
All the hose lengths were perfect with my first heat exchanger. Unfortunately, that exchanger had insufficient capacity to do the job. The replacement two pass exchanger required a slightly different pump location so I needed to extend the hose to reach. It's a temporary situation, the next time I open up the cooling system I'll replace it with a single hose of the proper length.

Man, can't get away with anything around here.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #310   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 09-16-2011, 10:07 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Man, can't get away with anything around here.
Well when you go posting pics, you know everyone is going to scrutinize them and look at all the stuff in the photo OTHER than what you want them to look at.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #311   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-16-2011, 10:19 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
It's all fair game Bill. I really have no problem with the scrutiny at all. In fact, I'm about as guilty as anyone when it comes to analyzing pictures.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #312   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 09-16-2011, 10:22 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
I shall keep that in mind and be more mindful of it in the future...

I do like the "crop" feature in my photo editor.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #313   IP: 193.253.220.149
Old 09-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Kelly's Avatar
Kelly Kelly is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brest, France
Posts: 663
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Actually, when I post pictures of "my" engine, I just use photos of other people's installations and pawn them off as mine. I'm just too embarrassed!

OK, that's not true, but I do have a lot of stuff around the engine room that would not pass the collective muster. Most of it is on the "get to that soon" list but I've been chasing so many head scratchers that "soon" is long lost by now.
__________________
Kelly

1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda Ketch, Wind and Atomic powered

Reply With Quote
  #314   IP: 96.228.21.70
Old 09-18-2011, 08:54 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Well today was "wiring day" aboard the S/V Grizabella. I use the "S/V" part in the technical sense, seeing as this vessel ain't been doin' a whole lot o' sailing for a long time...

Anyhow, made some good progress today - finished the last little bit of plumbing, so the "closed-loop" cooling system finally is, in fact, a "closed" loop.

Then I set about repeatedly contorting myself into and out of the aft quarterberths to run wires and connect them to teensy-tiny little screws on the backs of gauges.

The fun part was that pretty much every time I stuck my head back behind the bulkhead, I found another wire or two - or three - that was connected to NOTHING.

There are a hell of a lot of old abandoned wires in this boat that I will take great glee in pulling out. What a mess.

Anyhow, I did manage to get the ammeter, tachometer, new electric oil pressure gauge and new water temperature gauge all connected. I also hooked up the ignition key and start button, the fuel pump and the hi temp/low oil pressure alarm.

Despite the hazards inherent in posting pics to this forum (see above), here we go.

So here's a better shot of the back of the alternator:





I don't know if it's a Motorola - I didn't see anything on it, other than the sticker that says "Transpo" - I Googled the name and Transpo makes aftermarket alternators and regulators, so either the regulator, or the whole alternator, is a Transpo.

After a little more Googling, I determined that the regulator is a Transpo model made for Motorola alternators. I also found a site that shows the wiring for the regulator, so halleluja! It says the red wire connects to "Trio (+)" A little more digging and I think I've determined that it connects to a lug on the back end of the alternator, as Neil indicates. If that's where it goes, I dunno why the heck it needs to be so long, but whatever.

Continued...
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #315   IP: 96.228.21.70
Old 09-18-2011, 08:55 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Whilst sorting out all of the crazy wiring in this boat, I also took a gander at the main wiring interchange for all the house systems:



I am concluding that the big bus bar at the bottom, with all the white wires attached to it, is the ground.

While I was digging in there, I noticed this lovely little wire:





I have not yet traced it, so I don't know what it goes to (if anything - given what I found today, it seems there are about even odds that it's not connected to anything anymore). Either way, it's obviously got to go. If it's something still in use, I'll run new wires to replace it; if it's not in use, I will again gleefully yank it out and throw it overboard! (Remember, the boat is still on the hard, so "overboard" means it just lands on the ground next to the boat, and at the end of the day I pick up all my trash).

So - good progress made today, but still plenty to get done before firing her up, though. My plan is to go up to the boat next Saturday, work all day long and, if necessary, stay overnight on the boat to finish up whatever is left over the next day and finally fire the engine up. Then I'll take a day off during that week to put her back in the water.

I am hoping to be able to participate in a group trip scheduled for Oct. 12 - 16. Several guys on 3 or 4 boats are going to sail across the Chesapeake, from Deltaville to Onancock, stay overnight, then sail up to Crisfield, MD, stay overnight, then cross back over and stay either in Mill Creek or Antipoison Creek, and then return to their home ports. Sounds like a great trip, and I'm hoping I can have the boat functional enough to join them!
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #316   IP: 193.253.220.149
Old 09-19-2011, 04:50 AM
Kelly's Avatar
Kelly Kelly is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brest, France
Posts: 663
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Ground bus?

Bill,

Lots of pretty colors in there!

As to the possible ground bus, you should be able to follow one of the bigger wires all the way back to ground. Your more-than-questionable(!!) wire looks to be one wire from a two-wire double insulated wire with the second wire going to the upper bus bar. Just reinforces your thought that the bottom bus is ground.

Can't wait to hear about your first start!
__________________
Kelly

1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda Ketch, Wind and Atomic powered

Reply With Quote
  #317   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 09-19-2011, 08:29 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
As to the possible ground bus, you should be able to follow one of the bigger wires all the way back to ground.

Except for the fact that when I pulled the engine, I unhooked lots of wires without taking too much time to carefully label where each one went, figuring that I would figure it out later.

Which I am now doing.

I have concluded that the bottom bar is the common/neg/ground. All the pretty colors come from the main switch panel and then off to the various itesm all over the boat.

There is one white wire that is a big bigger than the rest (probably about 10 ga.) that is connected to the white bus bar with the other end not connected to anything. I'm thinking that previously was connected to a ground point and it was one of the many I yanked when I pulled the engine.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #318   IP: 96.228.21.70
Old 11-19-2011, 07:27 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Unfortunately, it appears that I am a moron. I can overhaul an engine, but evidently I cannot properly operate a stupid digital video camera.

So although I was confidently shooting lots of great video today, this is all I ended up with that was usable.

[youtube]B5ISIkNcIbk[/youtube]

The long and short of it is that the engine started surprisingly easily - in fact, I was cranking it to make sure I had completely filled the cooling loop and getting the air bubbles out - I did not intend to try to actually start it yet - when it started sputtering to life. I pulled the choke and it fired right up and purred like a kitten for 20 minutes.

I was all paranoid about the year-old gasoline in the tank for no good reason. I opened up the Racor filter/water separator and discovered that it was dry as a bone - evidently, the gasoline that had been left in it a year ago had all evaporated out. I was concerned that the electric pump might have a hard time getting itself primed, but with just a little cranking, away she went.

I still have a few things to sort out - I probably will change the way some wires and hoses are run; I've got some things temporarily hooked up for now. But she ran! And she ran beautifully!

Inching closer to splashing the boat for the first time in nearly a year...
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes

Last edited by ILikeRust; 11-19-2011 at 10:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #319   IP: 72.45.54.12
Old 11-19-2011, 08:08 PM
TomG's Avatar
TomG TomG is offline
Afourian MVP Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kent Island, MD
Posts: 656
Thanks: 73
Thanked 93 Times in 53 Posts
Congratulations, Bill! I've enjoyed following your rebuild and I know you must have a wonderful (and well-deserved) sense of satisfaction. Well done!
__________________
Tom
"Patina"
1977 Tartan 30
Repowered with MMI A-4 2008
Reply With Quote
  #320   IP: 71.183.233.249
Old 11-19-2011, 08:14 PM
Loki9's Avatar
Loki9 Loki9 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Congrats! When I first fired mine up just a few days ago, it brought the whole boat to life. It was very satisfying.
__________________
Jeff Taylor
Baltic 38DP
Reply With Quote
  #321   IP: 96.228.21.70
Old 11-19-2011, 10:17 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,202
Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Geez, YouTube was messing with me. It should be the right video now.

After warming up, she held steady at about 170 degrees F. It will be interesting to see how the temp goes when I finally get the boat back into the water. I could see the affect on the temp when I changed the opening of the ball valve to the thermostat.

Still plenty of work to do, but this is a major milestone for me.

The shifter cable had completely seized from sitting so long. I couldn't budge it. I concluded it would be easier to take it out of the boat and bring it home to work on it in my workshop, so I had to crawl head-first into the starboard quarterberth and dig into the deepest bowels of the boat, underneath the cockpit and below the gas tank, to unbolt the damn thing. The cable is held in with these fat u-bolts, and the bottom one was almost, but not quite, entirely inaccessible.

After I brought it home, I clamped it in the bench vise and tapped the end with a hammer to get it moving. I soaked a whole mess of Kroil into any gap or opening I could fine - I removed the grease fittings on both ends and flooded both ends with Kroil. That got it moving pretty well. Then I put the grease fittings back on and pumped fresh grease into it until the old dirty stuff started smooshing out.

It looks like nobody has greased it in many years. I'm thinking the previous owner might not have been aware he needed to do that. The lower fitting is, again, so nearly impossible to get at anyhow, I can't blame him, really.

Anyhow, it works nice and smoothly now.

Still lots to do...
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #322   IP: 174.65.51.3
Old 11-20-2011, 03:43 AM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 976
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Is this proof that even a moron can overhaul an A4?

Well, I did it...maybe that was enough proof!
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #323   IP: 64.89.255.24
Old 11-20-2011, 11:13 AM
mpleahy's Avatar
mpleahy mpleahy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Way Downeast
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I wish I'd taken pictures of my hokey carpenter rig. Boat on the hard, mast down, I built a small derek over the companionway and with a borrowed chain hoist and some straps raised the engine onto a dolly on planks over the cockpit. I then built a frame that leaned against the gunwales tall and rugged enough to lift the engine and cart. With dock lines to the far winch I pushed the frame out so that it pivoted from the ground enough so that I could lower the engine into my pick up. The best part was when I asked my wife to assist me by holding the line with one turn around the winch. It was 9pm cold and dark except for my two 40 watt clip lights. She was in her nighty when with a panic stricken look she said it was getting too heavy. We managed but I realized I should have taken two turns around the winch.

Lumber, screws, and borrowed stuff $50. The image of my half naked wife giving it all for her dopey husband...priceless.
Reply With Quote
  #324   IP: 151.200.26.6
Old 11-20-2011, 09:33 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Dude...nice!
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #325   IP: 193.253.220.149
Old 11-21-2011, 05:07 AM
Kelly's Avatar
Kelly Kelly is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brest, France
Posts: 663
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Congratulations Bill. This is a well-earned milestone in your epic rebuild.

Now if you can master the digital camera, you will truly become a force of nature, not to be taken lightly. But as for now...
__________________
Kelly

1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda Ketch, Wind and Atomic powered

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Short? Or bad component preventing engine from shutting off? ILikeRust Troubleshooting 23 10-25-2010 08:52 AM
Engine Sputters and Coughs, and Needed Choke to Run Smooth CaptainChas Troubleshooting 9 06-30-2009 10:50 PM
Engine Dies after approx one hour Trysail Troubleshooting 4 08-07-2008 11:15 AM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer General Interest 13 06-27-2008 11:06 AM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer Ranger 7 12-12-2005 12:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved