Excess Fuel?

[sandiegomike]

pistons 1 and four come to the top at the same time. Same for 2 and 3.

So I would try swapping plug wires for 1 and 4.
do the same for 2 and 3...

I can hear zoom now.

This is because you are timed 180 off. Take the wire for 1 and put it in the dist cap where the wire for 4 is now. Put number 4 wire where number 1 wire was. do the same for 2 and three.

We will try switching out plug wires tomorrow.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Here's the "stock" way. When facing the engine from the flywheel end the wire to #1 cylinder S\B at the 9 o'clock position when it is at TDC compression. As mentioned you can determine this by observing where the rotor is pointing.

TRUE GRIT

[roadnsky]

finding #1 TDC...

[sandiegomike]

Timing, spark and TDC

Sorry, pics are turned again.

I was able to get the A4 to run for about 2 seconds, (a hand full of times)so progress is shining upon Jim and I. Using starting fluid, but some times with fuel.

I had #1 at TDC. The one pic shows the yellow arrow and yellow dot lining up. I could also see the piston at the top of the cylinder. (it was pretty)

The distributor to the left in another picture from standing near the flywheel. 3rd pic shows the rotor pointing directly 90 degrees left.

I did get the big spark between the the coil wire and the head, so we are good there.

I tried switching the cables to see if I was 180 degrees out, but that made things worse.

I took the spark arrestor off and did get the suction as discussed in an earlier recommendation.

Choke does close all the way.

Not sure what to ask.....

[ndutton]

Mike, you might be timed right but your description and pictures are not conclusive.

The timing mark and piston at the top of its stroke happens twice in each cylinder in the 4 cycles of a 4 stroke engine. One is what you're after, top of the compression stroke. The other is the top of the exhaust stroke. Please note, the marks align for both and the piston is at the top for both.

I implore and beseech thee to revisit timing again just to be absolutely sure. It only takes a few minutes and will put the possibility to rest. The first and most critical step is to rotate the engine so the marks align on the compression stroke of the #1 cylinder closest to the flywheel. TDC is when the piston is at the top following the closure of the intake valve. One way to tell is to block the spark plug hole with your thumb as you turn the crankshaft by hand according to the arrow on the flywheel cover. When you feel pressure you're on the compression stroke, the next mark alignment is TDC. Hint: have all the spark plugs removed to make turning the engine by hand easier.

Only then can you scrutinize the position of the rotor to be certain it aligns with the distributor cap post corresponding to #1 plug wire. It does not matter where the rotor points relative to the centerline of the engine but rather that it points to #1 plug wire. Once that is established it's 1-2-4-3 going clockwise around the distributor cap.

By the way, your painted alignment mark looks a little off to me. The roll pin in the end of the crankshaft is perfectly vertical when the piston is at the top of its stroke.

[sandiegomike]

NDutton, thanks for the response. I will check timing again.

[ndutton]

. . . . . but I think I am good as I can see #1 level with the top of the cylinder. . . . . . I will also check TDC looking at the piston (#1)and will check the vertical position on the roll pin.

All are true at the top of the exhaust stroke as well which will result in timing 180° out. You MUST be at the top of the compression stroke which cannot be determined by the checks you mentioned.

I'm sorry to keep after this but we've seen it before, the continued denial that the timing couldn't be off, it's been checked and checked again. One guy worked for three days looking at other stuff and he had the help of his professional mechanic neighbor.

[sandiegomike]

All are true at the top of the exhaust stroke as well which will result in timing 180° out. You MUST be at the top of the compression stroke which cannot be determined by the checks you mentioned.

I'm sorry to keep after this but we've seen it before, the continued denial that the timing couldn't be off, it's been checked and checked again. One guy worked for three days looking at other stuff and he had the help of his professional mechanic neighbor.

Geez, no reason to say you're sorry - I appreciate it.

[ndutton]

Your timing may be correct but until it is a certainty other efforts could be wasted. Remember, the crankshaft - where the marks are - makes two complete revolutions for every one revolution of the distributor.

[sastanley]

SD Mike,
Once you get timing confirmed as Neil suggested, I've noticed that sometimes everything looks right, but you need to rotate the distributor itself just a few degrees, while cranking, and sometimes the motor will fire. I had everything all statically set up, but I had to twist the dizzy a few degrees one way or the other and she purred like a kitten, but refused to run prior to the dizzy adjustment.

Just be careful cuz your hands will be close to the accessory drive & alt. belt and stuff.

[sandiegomike]

All are true at the top of the exhaust stroke as well which will result in timing 180° out. You MUST be at the top of the compression stroke which cannot be determined by the checks you mentioned.

I'm sorry to keep after this but we've seen it before, the continued denial that the timing couldn't be off, it's been checked and checked again. One guy worked for three days looking at other stuff and he had the help of his professional mechanic neighbor.

Ndutton, thanks for all your help. I did the thumb test - about 5 times just to get a good understanding of the process. I was able to determine TDC on #1. Pretty cool little test process.

So the rotor still points in the same direction. Does this mean I am "close" on timing?

I took the carb off and brought it home to do another cleaning.

[sandiegomike]

SD Mike,
Once you get timing confirmed as Neil suggested, I've noticed that sometimes everything looks right, but you need to rotate the distributor itself just a few degrees, while cranking, and sometimes the motor will fire. I had everything all statically set up, but I had to twist the dizzy a few degrees one way or the other and she purred like a kitten, but refused to run prior to the dizzy adjustment.

Just be careful cuz your hands will be close to the accessory drive & alt. belt and stuff.

Sastanley, thank you. I gave it a try with no success. We have done this several times in the past and get close, so we will continue on with it.

[romantic comedy]

when I was a kid, I made a TDC thingy.

You take a spark plug and break off the top insulator, sort of. Then you put a balloon on the insulator, so that the compression stroke will fill the balloon.

I dont know how easy that is to do now days. It was 40 years ago....

[ndutton]

It has come up before . . . . .

[BunnyPlanet169]

One comment - having been guilty of 'knowing I was at TDC', twice even.

The balloon and thumb techniques will tell you which stroke ends at TDC, but then adjust so that the pin on the driveshaft is exactly vertical - THAT is truly TDC.

At that point, carefully (but only visually) align your #1 plug wire with the rotor, and assuming all else is good, the engine should start right up.