#1
IP: 209.234.189.74
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Cranking raw water cooled the engine too much then vapor or smoke
Hi All!
I'm new to the atomic 4 game, and have an exhaust related question. Starting up the engine for the first time on a new boat I neglected to open the valve on the fuel line and cranked for a while without the engine turning over. It was probably around a minute give or take total cranking time. Eventually figured out what was up, and got the thing running. The next day I got this in an e-mail Important! If for some reason you have to crank the motor a bunch make sure to close the raw water intake otherwise it sucks water back up into the exhaust manifold and mucks things up. Fast forward to the next trip out, first extended test under load, the engine ran fine for 20 minutes or so, then started to stumble, then die. Next time, a little longer, but similar symptoms. These I was attributing to bad gas, which I changed out last week, and started up, ran under load at the dock for about an hour no issues, but I did notice a lot of white smoke or vapor coming out of the exhaust. I believe it's vapor because it dissipates relatively quickly. The vapor is pretty minimal under low to moderate load, somewhat typical for My question Does it sound like water has backed up into the exhaust manifold? If so, What do I do about it? Thanks tim |
#2
IP: 71.118.13.238
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Tim, it blew out when you got it running. Cranking for extended "STARTING LIKE TIMES" can cause a build up of water in the "exhaust" of which can back up far enough to flood the exhaust manifold, no biggie. The biggie is that an open exhaust valve or two may let the water into the cylinders and on into the oil~~ big mess and possible seizing of the engine!!!
Dave Neptune |
#3
IP: 12.172.250.194
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If the engine starts readily and runs for 20 minutes at a clip before stumbling and dying, it isn't exhibiting obvious signs of a manifold problem. But you might want to check for a stuck valve or head gasket issue by removing the spark plugs one at a time (carefully, so you don't get zapped) and seeing if the engine slows down for each one. If the engine sound doesn't change, you know there's something wrong in that cylinder.
But your symptoms sound more to me like a failing coil. Other possibilities include a failing condenser (unless you have electronic ignition, which I think is a no-brainer upgrade), a clogged fuel filter, or a failing fuel pump. |
#4
IP: 209.234.189.74
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Thanks! The engine was just rebuilt, so i'm hoping its not something serious,
for reference, here's a video of what's coming out at a moderate load https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNqbzZeCMw |
#5
IP: 209.234.189.74
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Also, no water in the oil, first place I checked...
It seems to be running well now, just the smoke/vapor coming out has me concerned |
#6
IP: 107.0.6.242
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Quote:
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#7
IP: 73.55.66.163
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You checked for water in the oil, right?
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#8
IP: 74.78.114.78
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Quote:
Do you have a temperature gauge, and what's it reading? Does the water flow change if you play with the bypass valve? Do you have a bypass valve?
__________________
Jeff S/V Bunny Planet 1971 Bristol 29 #169 |
#9
IP: 98.171.168.85
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Another +1.
You shouldn't be getting batching at "moderate load" RPMs. You should only see batching at idle RPMs. Here's what to do. Leave the hose attached to the outlet fitting on the manifold but disconnect the other end and aim it out into the cockpit or into the bilge. Start the engine and rev it up a bit. Water should come out like a garden hose. Don't melt any plastic mufflers while doing this. If you aren't getting enough water through the engine there is a restriction to the flow through the engine or you have a failing water pump. Report back. We'll you what to do next. TRUE GRIT |
#10
IP: 209.234.189.74
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Yep, the oil looks fine
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#11
IP: 209.234.189.74
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Quote:
Not sure about the bypass valve, I'll take a look when I get over to the boat tonight. |
#12
IP: 209.234.189.74
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#13
IP: 70.197.23.18
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#14
IP: 70.197.23.18
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I don't see a bypass valve, the line runs straight from the water pump to the thermostat.
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#15
IP: 96.50.51.15
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Tim,
There is a "T" fitting on the hose between the water pump and the thermostat. The "T" fitting is where the cooling water enters the block and the volume is controlled by the thermostat. If you have a by-pass valve it would be located between the "T" connection and the thermostat. They are an aftermarket product and are available from our host. Some of the guys here who have lost faith in their thermostats or like to have a manual means of controlling the temperature have installed them and from all accounts like them. Just a way out thought, but if your located where the outside temperature is cold you could be exhausting some condensation as part of what we can see. Chuck |
#16
IP: 70.197.23.18
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Quote:
Is there any reason the hot water needs to run through the exhaust outlet if running for a while? |
#17
IP: 98.171.168.85
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redtim
I think you have the idea. Here was my experience with my late model RWC engine: I led a hose from the manifold to the cockpit and started the engine. My feet were in water so I thought I'd aim the hose over the side of the boat. I did this and revved the engine up and shot a stream of water across the finger pier and into my neighbors boat's cockpit! To say I was amazed would be an understatement. If you are getting this sort of output after the water goes through the engine then there is a blockage to flow after the engine somewhere. As you have figured out this is why I wanted you to disconnect the hose after the manifold and check the flow. You can run the engine with no water coming out the exhaust for awhile. Be careful not to heat damage any hoses or plastic mufflers. TRUE GRIT |
#18
IP: 70.110.28.136
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Quote:
EDIT: John types quicker than me!
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#19
IP: 76.21.29.115
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Thanks all,
will do some more checking this weekend. One thing to note, Looking at the exhaust hot section, I have something similar to this http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...rebuilder.html but the whole thing is a bit smaller and the water barb is higher up on the hot section. I also noticed that the description there indicates I should have a continuous downhill flow, the rubber hose heading to the exhaust port is a sagging tube, could that be causing problems? I haven't been able to inspect the full length of the tube, but it seems like this setup would have no further restrictions down the line save for a kinked hose? Quote:
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#20
IP: 174.94.22.52
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Let's start from the beginning - what motor do you have?
An early model or a late model A4? Because it makes a difference in water flow out the transom with an early model Dole thermostat system. |
#21
IP: 76.21.29.115
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Quote:
It has an oil fill tube over the flywheel, which seems to indicate late model? Also, after getting the tach working, I noticed that the engine tops out at 1500 - 1700 rpms. below that, I don't notice much vapor exiting the transom, after that it's billowing out. |
#22
IP: 174.94.22.52
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Quote:
What type of thermostat do you have? |
#23
IP: 76.21.29.115
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The boat is a 74 Ericson 27, the engine... I'm not so sure.
I would guess it was installed aftermarket due to all the weird holes cut around it for access, but who knows. I'll look for the date stamp when I get back on the boat this week. |
#24
IP: 74.78.114.78
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Quote:
Billowing white vapor is usually not a good thing, sorry. But let's burn that bridge when we come to it.
__________________
Jeff S/V Bunny Planet 1971 Bristol 29 #169 |
#25
IP: 71.59.69.172
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Redtim
Take a few pictures. They will help the MBPs better understand what your trying to describe. What you are showing as a water lift muffler.some of them are made of plastic or fiberglass and WILL melt if run even for a short time with no water. I suggest this, because it worked for me, disconnect the discharge hose from the manifold, WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD, and add in a pc of hose going to a f gal bucket. At idle you should be pumping at about 4from through the engine. If your going to rev the engine you will fill your bilge or your neighbors boat in short order. Do this test with a cold.engine and don't run it very long or you risk trashing parts down strewn in the exhaust gas as described above. Because your raw water cooled(?) The block or head may be full.of crud. Have you done an acid flush on the engine? Actually 170 at FOT under load isn't bad at all and my Tartan blows some steem or it did when I pushed her. If you have good flow through the ,and.I'm.guessing you do, you might want.to look at that water lift muffler. Someone posted a picture e here a while.back of one packed full of crud. 1500- 1700 at FOT is a tad low. You would.expect.to see 24, 25, 2700 if your prop.is correct and the engine is healthy. 1500 is low cruising rpm. A little steam at high end under load isn't a big deal. Aft e r all your mixing water with some VERY hot exhaust gasses. But your lower rpm suggest something is going on. Ok pictures pictures pictures. Did I suggest you share some pictures? ( of the engine, exhaust gas, hose configurations. Pictures of the kids are nice but won't be much help. Bill
__________________
Bill 1974, Tartan 30, Unchained Melody www.CanvasWorks.US Last edited by BadaBing; 03-23-2015 at 09:35 PM. |
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cranking, exhaust, smoke, vapor |
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